Game lag in one ISP but ok in another

[chummy]

Hello there, i can play same game server without delay in a ISP1 and computer1, but in another house with another "ISP2" and "computer2" game cause randomly one second key command pauses each 10-30s of time. I made some internet test, but ISP2 even has lower latency than ISP1 to server game and i cannot find packet loss in ping testing, is there some good method to test for packet loss in connection?


Some points, ISP1 is 120/10Mb uses DOCsis tech, while ISP2 is 25/10Mbps with GPON, latency is lower to the game server but there is somewhile pause momments which disturb game fluidity. I make sure there is not LAN devices, router being bandwitdth consuming, gaming is being played alone in the LAN, without any other device.

I done Computer-side tweaks but this specific problem looks to be something in network, even ONU which is close routed by ISP2 and i cannot access to know if some setting inside it can be causing problem or most probably internet routers somewhere in the path to server.

Someone can advise in this question?

Thanks in advance

[Philip]

There are many possible causes for this, from network issues to local LAN issues like router QoS settings, even PC issues with tweaking the network adapter driver, even services (notably, for example AsusGameFirstService.exe causes such lag spikes and service needs to be disabled).

I would work with things under your control first.
I would go through our gaming tweaks here: https://www.speedguide.net/articles/gaming-tweaks-5812
And Network adapter optimization: https://www.speedguide.net/articles/net ... ation-3449

[chummy]

There are many possible causes for this, from network issues to local LAN issues like router QoS settings, even PC issues with tweaking the network adapter driver, even services (notably, for example AsusGameFirstService.exe causes such lag spikes and service needs to be disabled).

I would work with things under your control first.
I would go through our gaming tweaks here: https://www.speedguide.net/articles/gaming-tweaks-5812
And Network adapter optimization: https://www.speedguide.net/articles/net ... ation-3449

Thanks for information. Anyway, gaming tweaks article i already done before posting, but no success. Since ISP1 differ from ISP2 in all manners, abrangency, different modem/routers. ISP1 leave free access to settings to deal with it, while ISP2 block access and dont permit bridge mode. I already introduced home network with an second LAN inside my own TP-Link router, which is connected directly to ONU router in their own LAN. My TP-link has "Bandwidth QoS" instead of "IP QoS priority", i tried it on and off, but no deal.

In my guess its most likely something in the ISP ONU settings or most probably some router in the way causing some loss..

P.S i dont have any bloatware installed like Asus Game service or any kind. This computer is weaker 2C/4T, 8GB, Vega 3 GPU, but game itself is light 2D and is CPU bound. Network adapter is realtek, i dont see any comments on it in the article.

Another question, which should be better topology in my LAN, leaving ONU LAN for all devices with their own DHCP or keeping my second LAN in my TP-Link connected to routed ONU? Is there a performance difference is this cases?

[Philip]

The performance hit shouldn't be much from the separate DHCP/subnet per se, the number of hops doesn't change. There is a small difference, as NAT routing takes place (source/destination IP change in packets).

In general, older routers may have hard time coping with a lot of functionality, such as firewalls, etc. when bandwidth demand is higher, as their hardware/processors are not very powerful. Just DHCP doesn't add much, but turning on router mode uses more CPU/resources (vs AP mode). I doubt it will make much difference, unless it is near the peak of its bandwidth limitations.

[chummy]

The performance hit shouldn't be much from the separate DHCP/subnet per se, the number of hops doesn't change. There is a small difference, as NAT routing takes place (source/destination IP change in packets).

In general, older routers may have hard time coping with a lot of functionality, such as firewalls, etc. when bandwidth demand is higher, as their hardware/processors are not very powerful. Just DHCP doesn't add much, but turning on router mode uses more CPU/resources (vs AP mode). I doubt it will make much difference, unless it is near the peak of its bandwidth limitations.

Most of hardware from ISP's here is from the most below/cheapest value, things which dont even exist on developed countries, so believe it can be as bad as old hardware.

But another thing i need to understand, if i keep primary ONU acting as main Router for devices, cascade LAN to LAN in my Archer C6, does Archer C6 router settings still work for connected devices? Like QoS, Firewall, NAT? Or only the main Router with DHCP has settings which affect over connected devices in LAN?

Archer C6 cascading LAN to LAN with ONU, i cant see most of connected devices over Archer C6 interface, even at router mode, it only see ethernet-computer and ONU connected devices, but dont see Dlink and repeater which are wired to Archer C6. I want to have some access to check connected devices and settings, so LAN to WAN will be the only way to Archer C6 control settings as a router? Being the main router/DHCP server?

[Philip]

I am not sure of your exact network, you mention DLINK, repeater, etc.

I would just use the ISP provided ONU/gateway as a modem, even with Wi-Fi off if you don't need it. If you can set it in bridge mode that is great, if not that's fine, just connect one device to it, your main NAT router. Then set your main router (Archer 6?) as the primary gateway/NAT router/wifi ap of your network. Repeaters and other routers should be in AP (lan to lan) mode in the same subnet as the main NAT router.

If using in normal "WAN to LAN" NAT router mode, you are using all functionality, i.e. Firewall, QoS, etc. It can be your DHCP server as well, you should only have ONE DHCP server in the subnet.

If "cascading LAN to LAN" you are using the router in AP mode, i.e. it has to be in the same subnet as the main router/gateway. In that mode it shouldn't be a DHCP sever, most of its firewall functionality is off, QoS is off typically, etc.

I would just ignore the ONU (use it as a modem/gateway) connect your main NAT router to it (WAN port, Archer 6?, WAN to LAN). All other devices/repeaters on your network should be behind it, as APs, repeaters, clients, etc. in the same subnet it is serving, with reserved IPs for devices you need to access (secondary routers in ap mode, lan-to-lan). IPs for those should be static, outside the DHCP range (or reserved in the DHCP range). That way, all devices behind your main router are in the same subnet and can see each other (unless you have turned on AP isolation mode).

If your clients connect to two separate networks (i.e. your ONU LAN, and a secondary NAT router LAN) they won't be able to see each other.

[chummy]

I am not sure of your exact network, you mention DLINK, repeater, etc.

I would just use the ISP provided ONU/gateway as a modem, even with Wi-Fi off if you don't need it. If you can set it in bridge mode that is great, if not that's fine, just connect one device to it, your main NAT router. Then set your main router (Archer 6?) as the primary gateway/NAT router/wifi ap of your network. Repeaters and other routers should be in AP (lan to lan) mode in the same subnet as the main NAT router.

If using in normal "WAN to LAN" NAT router mode, you are using all functionality, i.e. Firewall, QoS, etc. It can be your DHCP server as well, you should only have ONE DHCP server in the subnet.

If "cascading LAN to LAN" you are using the router in AP mode, i.e. it has to be in the same subnet as the main router/gateway. In that mode it shouldn't be a DHCP sever, most of its firewall functionality is off, QoS is off typically, etc.

I would just ignore the ONU (use it as a modem/gateway) connect your main NAT router to it (WAN port, Archer 6?, WAN to LAN). All other devices/repeaters on your network should be behind it, as APs, repeaters, clients, etc. in the same subnet it is serving, with reserved IPs for devices you need to access (secondary routers in ap mode, lan-to-lan). IPs for those should be static, outside the DHCP range (or reserved in the DHCP range). That way, all devices behind your main router are in the same subnet and can see each other (unless you have turned on AP isolation mode).

If your clients connect to two separate networks (i.e. your ONU LAN, and a secondary NAT router LAN) they won't be able to see each other.

First of all, i had difficult understanding when a router act like router or AP, because if i connect ONU router to TPlink LAN port, tplink dont change operation mode to AP, it keep router mode. But you saying than anytime i connect outside router to LAN port of any router it will not function like a router, only act as AP?

Let me try clarify what i have here. The ONU has only one LAN port outside, so its cannot provide wifi. Structure was like that:
ONU->TP-Link Archer C6-> LAN Dlink ADSL router acting as AP wireless-> outside Repeater connected by cable to dlink to expand wifi.

I removed dlink router and changed to an small Switch there, with more ports, because i used dlink like ethernet port expander too. I have TV, repeater, Two computers and ONU connected by cable, so i needed more ethernet ports.

So after i removed dlink, things get like that:
Routed ONU LAN -> LAN Archer C6(wifi provider)-> switch -> repeater(outside wifi provider).

So in that structure with ONU being DHCP Server, devices received DHCP IP's even with ONU to Archer being "LAN to LAN" or "LAN to WAN" and creating secondary subnet.

Now ISP disabled ONU IPv4 DHCP, and i created it on Archer. I need to deal with DHCP IPv6 from ISP now, since i dont have the settings to connect to it through my Archer. While ONU is still delivering IPv6 DHCP.

[Philip]

Pretty much when you use LAN ports on a router to connect to another you are using it in AP mode (or simply as a switch). Clients may be able to reach each other or not depending on the assigned subnet/IP block, but you should be able to reach each router if you set your client to a static IP in their proper subnet. Communication between LAN ports on a router are typically not affected by firewall rules, or any nat routing, etc.

With your network setup, I would use this: ONU LAN -> WAN port of Archer C6 -> switch or dlink -> repeater (wired is best). That way, You can use your Archer C6 as a DHCP server, its firewall, QoS, and all other functionality, without being dependent on the ONU limitations. The ONU would be providing some type of private IP addresses, let's say 192.168.0.*. You can setup your Archer LAN to a different block, for example 192.168.1.* . In the ONU settings, you may want to set the IP of the Archer to "DMZ" mode, or disable firewall on the ONU if you don't want to deal with both the ONU and the Archer.

Alternatively, if the ONU can be set in "bridge" mode, then it would be serving its external IP to your Archer, but the physical connection would be the same (ONY LAN port to WAN port of Archer). In either case, you'd only have one wired device connected to the ONU (your Archer NAT router/DHCP server, Wi-Fi, firewall, etc.).

[chummy]

Thanks for clarification. I keep the second LAN on Archer. For now i found the cause of my game lag, its definitely Internet congestion routers, maybe own ISP private CGNAT causing it.

Take a look, using psping to decrease packet intervals, i found many timeout requests over IP Range started in 100.xxx. which should be my ISP CGNAT hop:

tracert 172.65.210.70

Rastreando a rota para 172.65.210.70 com no máximo 30 saltos

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
3 5 ms 3 ms 5 ms 10.252.252.253
4 6 ms 5 ms 1 ms 10.88.1.2
5 6 ms 1 ms 5 ms 10.255.61.2
6 6 ms 1 ms 6 ms 10.255.60.1
7 5 ms 1 ms 6 ms 10.62.62.2
8 20 ms 20 ms 21 ms 100.80.1.4 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ping this one forward give high packet loss returns
9 22 ms 22 ms 21 ms 100.64.10.13
10 22 ms 22 ms 16 ms 100.66.8.201
11 21 ms 19 ms 21 ms 172.68.16.2
12 20 ms 21 ms 20 ms 172.65.210.70

=========================================

Ping statistics for 100.80.1.4:
Sent = 10000, Received = 9548, Lost = 452 (4% loss),
Minimum = 15.64ms, Maximum = 60.01ms, Average = 21.39ms

My game is very sensitive for single packet loss, so everytime it loss a single one my game just stop the momment resposiveness.

[Philip]

Seems that node is quite busy.. And that your ISP is doing quite a bit of private routing.

Just keep in mind the following:
tracert sends ICMP Echo Request packets to each hop. ICMP is a protocol given very low priority, so when a node is under heavier load it will discard ICMP packets first. Packet loss with ICMP simply means that hop is quite congested, or gives too little priority to ICMP. Some nodes may not respond to pings at all.