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Thread: H.R. 4170 -- The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012

  1. #21
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    So do you think that police and firefighters should get paid less?

    In my neighboring town (Medford) which is GOP run, they have been laying off police left and right.
    Absolutely not, we don't make enough. Public Safety are the step child of every city, they want nothing to do with you until they need you then they expect everything in the world from you. I personally haven't had a raise in 5 years, but with the way things are I consider myself blessed to have a job with benefits.

  2. #22
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    It is the old saw, everyone is overpaid.... but me.

    Labor unions created the middle class. Yes, they can overstep the bounds of reason, but so does management.
    Delving into American food industries has reinforced my opinion that large corporations will do everything in their power to maximize their profits and **** the workers.
    But labor unions are just as guilty for causing the problems. It all boils down to greed and EVERYBODY is greedy, I don't understand the desire for money and power that people have, no matter how much money and power they have it's never enough.

    Example of unions I have seen personally, 20 years ago Ford paid their union workers who swept the floor $19.50/hr. There are so many things on both sides of it both are so corrupt it makes me sick.

  3. #23
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnosteele52 View Post
    But labor unions are just as guilty for causing the problems. It all boils down to greed and EVERYBODY is greedy, I don't understand the desire for money and power that people have, no matter how much money and power they have it's never enough.

    Example of unions I have seen personally, 20 years ago Ford paid their union workers who swept the floor $19.50/hr. There are so many things on both sides of it both are so corrupt it makes me sick.
    I have seen quite a few things that the unions did that were inappropriate even downright destructive, the adversarial positions made for some bad situations. Still, look what happens to labor when large companies have their way. Better wages allow people to go out to eat, buy new clothing, afford dental care (cough cough) etc. Money tied up at the top does not help the economy.

    If "big government" is the enemy, it is because of corruption. Most, if not all watchdogs, have been overrun with the very companies they were meant to scrutinize.

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #24
    Dr Tweak mnosteele52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    If "big government" is the enemy, it is because of corruption. Most, if not all watchdogs, have been overrun with the very companies they were meant to scrutinize.
    I agree 100%, good example is Monsanto.

  5. #25
    SG Enthusiast RaisinCain's Avatar
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    It's our whole government. They do what they want and have done so for years. It's only going to get worse. Pretty sad IMHO.

  6. #26
    Elite Member blebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    It goes back to our founding as a nation.

    Corporations were NEVER allowed to operate as they do today. This is why our founding fathers left England. It is why I believe every GOP member to be morally bankrupt. Corporate charters were a gift from the citizenry. Citizen authority over corporate charters was effectively demolished with the passage of the 14th amendment.

    Here is a short list of how corporations were treated at their inception:

    * Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

    * Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

    * Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

    * Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

    * Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

    * Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.


    Where are we now?

    there is only one way to change it and only one group of people can make the change.
    Yeap and it sure isn't us!
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces people into thinking they can't lose. -Bill Gates

  7. #27
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JawZ View Post
    It goes back to our founding as a nation.

    Corporations were NEVER allowed to operate as they do today. This is why our founding fathers left England. It is why I believe every GOP member to be morally bankrupt. Corporate charters were a gift from the citizenry. Citizen authority over corporate charters was effectively demolished with the passage of the 14th amendment.
    The 14th Amendment was never designed to protect corporations. IT was the US Supreme Court, cowing to Bank and Industrial interests, who made the decision that a private enterprise should be given the rights (as stated in the 14th) as a citizen .
    Googled

    Good find, Evan!

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #28
    Moderator Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    The 14th Amendment was never designed to protect corporations. IT was the US Supreme Court, cowing to Bank and Industrial interests, who made the decision that a private enterprise should be given the rights (as stated in the 14th) as a citizen .
    Googled

    Good find, Evan!
    One of the worst decisions by the Supreme Court ever.

  9. #29
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    One of the worst decisions by the Supreme Court ever.
    The current eminent domain clause is pretty damned awful.

    Hell_Yes

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca

    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche

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