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Thread: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

  1. #1
    Andrew Engels Rump
    Guest

    How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    Hi

    I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
    of shielding wifi from the outside world!

    We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
    used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
    but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    technicians.

    Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
    shielding paint? I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
    Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business) and also an ACM
    article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
    it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
    would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
    windows!!! :-)

    Any experience?

    Andrew Engels Rump

  2. #2
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
    > one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    > with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    > technicians.


    Civil lawsuit for willful and intentional malicious activity to disrupt
    a business. May not get you anywhere, but might scare the pants off him.

  3. #3
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
    wrote:

    >I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
    >of shielding wifi from the outside world!


    <http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6240-stealth-wallpaper-keeps-company-secrets-safe.html>


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  4. #4
    LR
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
    > of shielding wifi from the outside world!
    >
    > We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
    > used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
    > but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    > with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    > technicians.
    >
    > Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
    > shielding paint? I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
    > Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business) and also an ACM
    > article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
    > it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
    > would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
    > windows!!! :-)
    >
    > Any experience?
    >
    > Andrew Engels Rump

    http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
    http://www.lessemf.com/plastic.html

  5. #5
    Jeff Liebermann
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
    wrote:

    >I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
    >of shielding wifi from the outside world!


    Yes. Some of my high-rise office building customers, that have glass
    walls through which they pickup considerable interference, were having
    problems. I solved most of them by carefully locating the access
    points and client radios, eliminating un-necessary wireless links, and
    switching from 2.4 to 5.7GHz wireless.

    >We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
    >used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
    >but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    >with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    >technicians.


    I've had similar problems with wireless hackers. I personal
    visitation was usually all that was required to get their attention.
    They usually think they can get away with anything as long as they are
    not identified. If you know who they are and what they're doing, the
    picture changes considerably. However, if they fail to cooperate,
    calling in the law doesn't do much good. I have other methods of
    getting their attention, but none of them are legal, so I won't
    itemize.

    If the neighbor is fairly close, just install a large dish antenna on
    your building pointed directly at him. You don't have to connect
    anything to it, just make sure he can see it. His imagination will do
    the rest.

    >Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
    >shielding paint?


    No. Silver doped paint is useful for small areas and is of course
    rather expensive. The carbon filled stuff (Aquadag) doesnt' really
    work too well at 2.4GHz. Your best bet is aluminum foil. I've built
    shield rooms in the distant past out of sheet copper, brass screening,
    and berillium finger stock. It's not cheap and very difficult to keep
    microwave frequencies out completely. A small gap is enough to pass
    some signal. I don't think you need much in the way of attenuation to
    keep out the neighbors. Some brass screening on the facing doors and
    walls should be sufficient.

    Radio service shops also have similar problems with on channel RF
    interference. It's very difficult to tune up a receiver when there's
    a high power transmitter next door on the same frequency. Some rent
    large metal storage containers and use them as screen rooms. There
    are also small RF shielded boxes that will do the job.
    <http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/te/default.asp?page=rften>
    There are also small test boxes designed for wireless testing that I'm
    too lazy to dig out the URL.

    Lots depends on what manner of testing you're doing. Turning your
    test lab into an RF echo chamber will not help much. You might want
    to look into RF absorptive materials instead of RF reflective.

    >I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
    >Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business)


    <http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>

    >and also an ACM
    >article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
    >it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
    >would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
    >windows!!! :-)


    Well, you're not trying to block *ALL* frequencies, just 2.4 and
    possibly 5.7GHz. You don't need the ultimate in shielding to do that.
    A metal screen door, metal window screens, some aluminum foil or mesh,
    and you'll block most of the junk.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  6. #6
    Stephen
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:41:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    >On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
    >>of shielding wifi from the outside world!

    >
    >Yes. Some of my high-rise office building customers, that have glass
    >walls through which they pickup considerable interference, were having
    >problems. I solved most of them by carefully locating the access
    >points and client radios, eliminating un-necessary wireless links, and
    >switching from 2.4 to 5.7GHz wireless.
    >
    >>We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
    >>used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
    >>but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    >>with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    >>technicians.

    >
    >I've had similar problems with wireless hackers. I personal
    >visitation was usually all that was required to get their attention.
    >They usually think they can get away with anything as long as they are
    >not identified. If you know who they are and what they're doing, the
    >picture changes considerably. However, if they fail to cooperate,
    >calling in the law doesn't do much good. I have other methods of
    >getting their attention, but none of them are legal, so I won't
    >itemize.
    >
    >If the neighbor is fairly close, just install a large dish antenna on
    >your building pointed directly at him. You don't have to connect
    >anything to it, just make sure he can see it. His imagination will do
    >the rest.
    >
    >>Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
    >>shielding paint?

    >
    >No. Silver doped paint is useful for small areas and is of course
    >rather expensive. The carbon filled stuff (Aquadag) doesnt' really
    >work too well at 2.4GHz. Your best bet is aluminum foil. I've built
    >shield rooms in the distant past out of sheet copper, brass screening,
    >and berillium finger stock. It's not cheap and very difficult to keep
    >microwave frequencies out completely. A small gap is enough to pass
    >some signal. I don't think you need much in the way of attenuation to
    >keep out the neighbors. Some brass screening on the facing doors and
    >walls should be sufficient.
    >
    >Radio service shops also have similar problems with on channel RF
    >interference. It's very difficult to tune up a receiver when there's
    >a high power transmitter next door on the same frequency. Some rent
    >large metal storage containers and use them as screen rooms. There
    >are also small RF shielded boxes that will do the job.
    ><http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/te/default.asp?page=rften>
    >There are also small test boxes designed for wireless testing that I'm
    >too lazy to dig out the URL.
    >
    >Lots depends on what manner of testing you're doing. Turning your
    >test lab into an RF echo chamber will not help much. You might want
    >to look into RF absorptive materials instead of RF reflective.
    >
    >>I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
    >>Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business)

    >
    ><http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>
    >
    >>and also an ACM
    >>article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
    >>it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
    >>would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
    >>windows!!! :-)


    Virgin trains in the UK have sets with gold film coated windows (to
    reduce solar gain on our rare sunny warm days).

    it plays havoc with GSM phone reception (1.9 GHz?) - so much so that
    you only get useful reception near a station, or where the lines goes
    thru the suburbs with heavy cell coverage.

    If maybe it will help tame 2.4 G WLAN?
    >
    >Well, you're not trying to block *ALL* frequencies, just 2.4 and
    >possibly 5.7GHz. You don't need the ultimate in shielding to do that.
    >A metal screen door, metal window screens, some aluminum foil or mesh,
    >and you'll block most of the junk.

    --
    Regards

    stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

  7. #7
    Andrew Engels Rump
    Guest

    Re: How to shield off wifi/wireless?

    I demand that DTC on Tue, 20 May 2008 10:44:38 -0500 may or may not have
    written:
    > Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
    >> one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
    >> with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
    >> technicians.

    > Civil lawsuit for willful and intentional malicious activity to disrupt
    > a business. May not get you anywhere, but might scare the pants off him.


    Well I got a representative from the Danish authorities to come by today
    but I do not have that high hopes because their "radiocar" has been by in
    the past.

    Andrew

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