Full house network

[IranianHobo]

Oright here it is- I am planning on wiring some new houses with a full network (every bedroom, den ect. needs to have a connection). The walls are placed yet so wiring should be easy enough however my question is, where should I have the outlets leading out to and should the wires all come back to a central location?

Also would I need to have a seperate CAT-5 cable leading into every room or could I somehow split the wires?

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thnx guys.

[smaier69]

well, there are many different ways to do it, but if it were me, i would do this....

run individual CAT5 cables from a central location (a closet or a room where there could or would be somthing like a hub/switch/router/server) to all the rooms. this would give you the best flexibility in terms of options. it could be a simple peer-to-peer LAN or a client/server network. the end-user/tenant could make that choice.

individual cables would be better as it would be much easier to troubleshoot and/or replace the cabling as needed. i would also suggest running the cable through conduit for the same reasons. i would locate the CAT5 walljacks in the same general area as electrical outlets (the assumption being where there is a network port, there would be a comp that needs power).

[IranianHobo]

Thnx for the help. Just one further question; whats a conduit? Thanks aghain for your help I really appreciate it.

[ace]

if i were you i would pull wires for each room to a central location
somewhere around the fuse box. thats where the cable and phone come into and would be the perfect place to set up a nice network with a router.

well hope this helps!!:rolleyes:

[ace]

oh yea, there is no way that you can split the cat-5 lines for the use of splitters. you need to have a solid connection from the router.:2cool:

[smaier69]

conduit it just plastic or metal tubing through which wires are run. it serves a few different purposes. it protects the wires themselves from wear and environment damage. with wires carrying a heavy current (like electrical wiring), it also helps in containing a fire if the wires fail or short out.

also, if you run the cabling through conduit, its a lot easier to replace or install a "run". if its an install (no wires present), then you just run a fish-tape through the conduit, tie one end of the new cable to the end of the fish-tape, and pull the fish-tape back out (and the new cable in). if its a replacement, then you just tie (or tape) one end of the new cable to one end of the old cable (still in conduit) and pull the old cable out (and the new cable in at the same time). installing the conduit first requires more work, but it makes things easier down the road.

with no conduit, replacing old cabling/wiring can be extremely difficult with walls in the way.

[tomsykes]

I'd put a double RJ45 outlet on each side of most rooms. Maybe a 4 x RJ45 outlet in rooms like a home office, kitchen etc.

Typically these terminate in a closet or a basement in a small wall mountable rack filled with two or three 24 port patch panels (24 port patch panel is about AU$250) A switch is also put in to join everything up.

[IranianHobo]

So a port patch would be like a huge outlet that all the wires connect into before being hooked into the hub/switch right?

Also do you guys have any recommendations for outlet and cable suppliers? I think I should allow the customers to buy thier own routers and hubs as they see fit.

Thanks again for all your help, you guys have no idea how much I appreciate it.

[IranianHobo]

Hmm I just had another burst of thought.... Supposing that they wanted to have a printer hooked into this network what would that require? Also if I wanted to do something like that placing the "central location" in the basement wouldn't be too hot of any idea would it?

I think I am gonna need to read a book on networking or I will have to get a pro to do it all for me (my current idea is to figure it all out myself and have my electrition do all the wiring).

Thnx again for all your help.

[smaier69]

well, there's many ways to set up a print server.

there are actual "network printers" which have their own NIC, so they can be set up with their own IP address or whatever, depending on the type and configuration of the printer. these are usually expensive, but are definitely the way to go if you have the money.

there are also some routers which can act as a print server.

or a person can take the normal/most common route, and just set up one of the computers on the LAN to act as a print server. to the computer connected to the printer, the printer would be local, but File and Print sharing would be enabled so the other comps on the LAN will see the printer (since it will be a shard device. similar to a shared drive). if you can set up a computer to share a hdd on a LAN, you can set up a printer. its very easy.

as for online networking suppliers, i couldn't offer you much that way. i have made all of my purchases of this nature locally. i am sure somebody else here may know of a good one.

[tomsykes]

Ideally buy a network printer (ie one with an ethernet port) - that way you can plug it in. What I have is a HP laserjet 2100 - with a HP Jet Direct print server. It's a tiny little box with an ethernet port and a parallel port for the printer. Means I can place the printer anywhere.

Basements usually aren't too hot for a wiring closet.

[YeOldeStonecat]

If you're wiring "several houses" it sounds like you're not doing a job for youself, but in a contracted manner.

Please have it done by a professional who does data wiring for a living. I've seen so many hack jobs where someone tried to save a few pennies doing it himself, or having his "electrician" do it, thinking "He's an electician, he's be able to do it". No, it's two different things, data wiring has certification and training and constantly changing new standards and codes.

If I see a hack job like that, I turn around and leave, telling the customer to call me when a professional has the job done. It ends up being a waste of everyones time, and the project doesnt get done on time, all to save a few pennies.

[IranianHobo]

Hmm a few pennies?

Well first off I am not wiring several houses together I am only wiring a house for it's own personal network.

Also although I have never done anything of this nature before, from prior experience with other "certified specialists" it will be quite a bit more then a few pennies but anyway. By certified are you saying that I should be looking for a MSCE (think thats it) certified professional (they offer courses for that cerfitication in my high school by the way so I sorta doubt it really means to much more then an electrician whos been wiring cable, phone, electric and secruity wires all his life)? I guess I could find those guys in the yellow pages right?

Also what is a port patch? (no one answered that).

And YeOld don't take what I say personally I am sure that getting a specialist does matter but just imagine saying that when YOU are paying for it. I really aprreciate the advice I will ask around and see what those guys charge for it.

Thnx aghain guys you really don' know how much I appreciate this. (Asking this stuff for my dad who knows nothing about comp's :rolleyes: )

[IranianHobo]

Oh yeah Tomsyk why isn't it a very good idea to place the wire closet in the bastment? Because of losing the printer option or because the humidity down there?

[tomsykes]

Putting cabling in the basement is fine (usually). I have my patch panels and switch down there, its not humid and its not too hot either.

You can get a tiny print server so your printer can be placed anywhere there is a network outlet.

A "patch panel" is simply a row of 12 or 24 network ports. The bare wires get terminated onto the back of these. The other end of the wire runs off to various points in your house

You then use short 'patch cables' to join these outlets up to the switch.

An example is here :

http://www.cablesnmor.com/patch-panel.html

It neatly lines up all the wires from your outlets into one spot.

[YeOldeStonecat]

No, nothing personal. I saw you mentioned wiring "several houses"...so I kind of thought you were a hired electrician or you were a contractor looking for how to get the houses wired.

I didn't want to see you as a contractor have several houses setup for networks by some shoemaker electrician who says he can handle it and botch it all up for the owners.

If it's wiring your own house that you'll support, and troubleshoot, then absolutely fine, I say do it yourself. Kits are so easy these days. But not as a contractor to turn to some poor customer who will try to setup a home office and have a nightmare cuz the wiring job is not to code.

I get so ripped when I go to install a network, get onsite, setup the server, workstations, router, what have you, and sit there scratching my head why something isn't connecting, or the NIC isn't connecting at full 100 speed, etc. Only to find out it's a crappy crimp job on the wiring, or the guy who did it ran it over the flourescent light ballast using non-plenum cable in a drop ceiling, or stabled it along a beam next to an AC feed.

Big waste of my time, especially when I pre-quote fixed labor for a supposedly known easy network job. It's gotten to the point where I have our cable guy go inspect any previously wired jobs before I go onsite.

It's not MSCE certified peeps, it's wiring certs, from the manufacturers of cables. I've been to a Leviton class, others like Ortronics, Hubbel, etc, they all have their own classes for installers of resellers.

It's find to have your wiring closet in the basement, as long as it's normally dry down there. You'll have your hub near the patch panel (which is what usually goes into the wiring closet, which is commonly where the phone lines terminate also) You don't want it in your basement if it's very damp and humid and tons of cobwebs down there (silk conducts electricity too, not just your silk tie falling across a hot motherboard, but the cobwebs across open terminals also)

I don't know what you mean by "port patch", but a "patch panel" is where all your data jacks feeds come together into one location to be grounded and uplinked to a hub/switch/router. In other words, say you have 4 rooms, and you want 4 computers in each room. You'll put a data jack into the wall of each room, and in back of those, not unlike a power outlet, you'll have your wire which will lead down into the basement. You'll have all your wires meet somewere in a central location, this is your patch panel, punchdown block, etc, where all your data jack lines will terminate. From this, you take short patch cables, and uplink each to a hub or switch or router.

[IranianHobo]

Thnx bout the info on the patch panel YeOLd and Tom.

YeOld I am building several houses and plan to network them all and then sell them out to others sorry about the bad word usage before. I will look into some professionals and see how much they charge. However YeOld you mention building a network by codes. By codes do you mean building codes, because we would build it by code (would sorta have to for a C of O). Also YeOld I know that here any problems that are found in a new home within the first year of closing have to be fixed by the seller. Considering mainly new homes have the pre-installed networks you should check something like that out in your area (however be warned that if you fix it per request of the owner and then try to charge the seller for your services(or the owner trys to) the seller is not required to pay you. As well if you mess around with the wiring then the seller is not responsible even if the wiring was broken prior to your interference. However that is all in my experience you would have to look into some more.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Around here (kinda expensive where I live) the wiring guys charge around 150 - 175 per drop.

[IranianHobo]

by drop I am guessing you mean each connection or room.

Would that include materials also or just labor? Also honestley is the WIRING of network cable very much different from wiring phone cable? I mean the electrican I plan on using has been working with me for over five years now and I have never had a complaint.

Thnx again for the help and information.

[tomsykes]

portspy: You may as well get the entire house done in Category 5 cable - that is - for both voice and data. That's what is done here now for new homes.

The cabling companies usually charge a similar rate if you're running 1 cable, or 10 cables. Labour is the main cost. The tricky bit is the termination of cables onto wall jacks etc. So, if you wanted 6 ports up one end of the house, they probably will not charge any more to feed through 6 runs of cable - as they pull through multiple runs at once. They will charge for terminating the ports though.

[IranianHobo]

Thnx for the suggestion Tom but could you just clarify a little. Would the voice and data both come out of one outlet? If that is the case how could you hook up both the phone and NIC card at once?

Or would the wire get split and vioce and data would have seperate outlets?

Hmm...at this rate it seems like I am going to need to have a professional set-up our first house and then we would do a copy of sorts in the other houses.

Guys thnx again fro your help.

[tomsykes]

What I have at home are dual outlets - one for voice, one for data. Separate cat5 cable run for each terminating in the basement.

While you can run both voice and data over one cable, as I said earlier it'll probably cost no more (other than the cable which is really cheap) to run 2 lengths.

Have the cable run before the plasterboard walls are put in as well - makes life MUCH easier and terminate it after. :D

[IranianHobo]

Yeah...the foundations of the houses are not even placed yet so that part will be easy :D. Thnx again. I think that I would probobly try out what you have described.

[YeOldeStonecat]

///Nods with Tom///

What he said is a good point...since nothings built yet, have both the data and voice pulled at the same time. You're paying for the guy to be there, and usually the same price per drop (meaning line(s) to data jack in wall. Wether it's a single line, or 4 lines, it's usually the same price, or hardly a difference.

You'll notice many new office buildings have the data jacks in the wall, with perhaps 2 RJ-45 jacks for computers, and 2 RJ11 jacks for phones. So that's 4 lines on one drop if the phone system is separate or a unique phone system. Or less if it's wired together like Tom said.

[IranianHobo]

Well guys thnx again for all the help. I think that I now have enough info to go foward with this and YeOld I really will look into how much it would cost to have a professional wire the houses :D . Really guys I appreciate your help very much.