POE (Power Over Eithernet)

[steve]

I have a small school library that I want to put a WIFI signal in. I
want to use POE.

Has anyone used any POE devices and can they recomend which ones to
use. Im also wondering about having a POE access point rather than a
Router, eg why ad another router that will just have to be set up etc.
rather than an access point that negotiates with an existing router.
(if you can do that with POE)

Any advice ?

thanks.

[Aaron Leonard]

~ I have a small school library that I want to put a WIFI signal in. I
~ want to use POE.
~
~ Has anyone used any POE devices and can they recomend which ones to
~ use. Im also wondering about having a POE access point rather than a
~ Router, eg why ad another router that will just have to be set up etc.
~ rather than an access point that negotiates with an existing router.
~ (if you can do that with POE)
~
~ Any advice ?
~
~ thanks.

If 802.11g is adequate to your requirements, then a Cisco Catalyst Express
520-8PC switch with Cisco 521 Wireless Express Access Points would likely
meet your needs.

Aaron

[steve]

Thanks I will look at those.

[seaweedsl]

On Sep 8, 11:48*am, Aaron Leonard <Aa...@Cisco.COM> wrote
>
> If 802.11g is adequate to your requirements, then a Cisco Catalyst Express
> 520-8PC switch with Cisco 521 Wireless Express Access Points would likely
> meet your needs.
>

Especially if you don't mind spending $1,500 dollars! You are trying
to simplify, therefore need to install a $1000 switch to get POE? I
think you can buy a POE injector/splitter combo for far less and then
just use a consumer grade router.

I don't know squat about POE, but here's once place that has injectors
etc.
http://www.fab-corp.com/home.php?cat=273

[steve]

Yes well I would like to get the best but I dont have 1500 dollar
budget for this. I tried looking for the Cisco unit but sadly I could
not find it locally. I asume it is a high end product. It was my
mistake however since I didnt quote how much I would like to spend. I
would say around 200 dollars. The fact that I didnt get too many
responses may mean that few have use these. Frankly when I walk into 5
out of 5 stores so far none have had or even know about poe. They all
seem to have power through the wall socket type units. eg it sends the
signal through the wall socket. Reverse of POE. These may? be good
units I dont know. I wonder if anyone has had any experience on
these ??

Regards

On Sep 9, 11:13*am, seaweedsl <seaweedst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 11:48*am, Aaron Leonard <Aa...@Cisco.COM> wrote
>
>
>
> > If 802.11g is adequate to your requirements, then a Cisco Catalyst Express
> > 520-8PC switch with Cisco 521 Wireless Express Access Points would likely
> > meet your needs.
>
> Especially if you don't mind spending $1,500 dollars! *You are trying
> to simplify, therefore need to install a $1000 switch to get POE? * I
> think you can buy a POE injector/splitter combo for far less and then
> just use a consumer grade router.
>
> I don't know squat about POE, but here's once place that has injectors
> etc.http://www.fab-corp.com/home.php?cat=273

[Froggie the Gremlin]

Steve, I've used both 11mb and 85mb units (based on the HomePlug spec) which
bridge over the house wiring... primarily due to the fact that my
son-in-law's house has foil covered insulation in most of the floors (wifi
was a miserable failure between floors).

These units have worked very well for me, good bandwidth. I have one
plugged into the broadband router, one travels with the house desktop
wherever it may be at any given time, and one travels with their laptop all
around the house, yard, wherever.

---<ribbit>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:24:39 -0700 (PDT), steve <stevesemple@lycos.com>
wrotd:

>Yes well I would like to get the best but I dont have 1500 dollar
>budget for this. I tried looking for the Cisco unit but sadly I could
>not find it locally. I asume it is a high end product. It was my
>mistake however since I didnt quote how much I would like to spend. I
>would say around 200 dollars. The fact that I didnt get too many
>responses may mean that few have use these. Frankly when I walk into 5
>out of 5 stores so far none have had or even know about poe. They all
>seem to have power through the wall socket type units. eg it sends the
>signal through the wall socket. Reverse of POE. These may? be good
>units I dont know. I wonder if anyone has had any experience on
>these ??
>
>Regards
>
>On Sep 9, 11:13*am, seaweedsl <seaweedst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 8, 11:48*am, Aaron Leonard <Aa...@Cisco.COM> wrote
>>
>>
>>
>> > If 802.11g is adequate to your requirements, then a Cisco Catalyst Express
>> > 520-8PC switch with Cisco 521 Wireless Express Access Points would likely
>> > meet your needs.
>>
>> Especially if you don't mind spending $1,500 dollars! *You are trying
>> to simplify, therefore need to install a $1000 switch to get POE? * I
>> think you can buy a POE injector/splitter combo for far less and then
>> just use a consumer grade router.
>>
>> I don't know squat about POE, but here's once place that has injectors
>> etc.http://www.fab-corp.com/home.php?cat=273

[Aaron Leonard]

~ Yes well I would like to get the best but I dont have 1500 dollar
~ budget for this. I tried looking for the Cisco unit but sadly I could
~ not find it locally. I asume it is a high end product.

I was kind of afraid you'd say that. Cisco brand products are not cheap.
(On the other hand, they do tend to work.)

~ It was my
~ mistake however since I didnt quote how much I would like to spend. I
~ would say around 200 dollars.

A Linksys SRW208P switch is in that ballpark, and provides 15.4W 802.3af
PoE on 4 ports (or 7.5W on 8 ports.)

Next question is, what PoE powered APs are you going to use?

A little Googling shows that D-Link seems to have the cheapest 802.3af
APs around.

The fact that I didnt get too many
~ responses may mean that few have use these. Frankly when I walk into 5
~ out of 5 stores so far none have had or even know about poe.

You'll probably have to order online.

Regards,

Aaron

----

~ They all
~ seem to have power through the wall socket type units. eg it sends the
~ signal through the wall socket. Reverse of POE. These may? be good
~ units I dont know. I wonder if anyone has had any experience on
~ these ??
~
~ Regards
~
~ On Sep 9, 11:13*am, seaweedsl <seaweedst...@gmail.com> wrote:
~ > On Sep 8, 11:48*am, Aaron Leonard <Aa...@Cisco.COM> wrote
~ >
~ >
~ >
~ > > If 802.11g is adequate to your requirements, then a Cisco Catalyst Express
~ > > 520-8PC switch with Cisco 521 Wireless Express Access Points would likely
~ > > meet your needs.
~ >
~ > Especially if you don't mind spending $1,500 dollars! *You are trying
~ > to simplify, therefore need to install a $1000 switch to get POE? * I
~ > think you can buy a POE injector/splitter combo for far less and then
~ > just use a consumer grade router.
~ >
~ > I don't know squat about POE, but here's once place that has injectors
~ > etc.http://www.fab-corp.com/home.php?cat=273

[seaweedsl]

On Sep 10, 3:32*pm, Aaron Leonard <Aa...@Cisco.COM> wrote:
> A Linksys SRW208P switch is in that ballpark, and provides 15.4W 802.3af
> PoE on 4 ports (or 7.5W on 8 ports.)
>
> Next question is, what PoE powered APs are you going to use?
>

Aaron; it seems like you do have experience with POE, so I'm
wondering-

why you suggest a switch instead of an injector? In case he has to
install more than one AP?
similarly, is a splitter not as good as an actual POE powered AP? Or
is it just the elegance factor?

Otherwise, I'd think that $50-60 for an injector and splitter combo,
and then $60 for a Linksys WRT54GL (DD-WRT) would be a very cheap
solution. Oh, I see that Steve prefers less setup, so get a dedicated
AP/Client, same cost.

Again, I don't know squat, but how complicated can it be? It's just a
matter of breaking out a couple of wires and feeding them DC, right?

Steve: I have an installation with an ethernet client (same thing-
could be AP) up on pole in a rootenna box. Instead of POE, I just
ran some 16 ga. zip cord spliced it into the power supply cord for
the 30 feet I needed to run power. I did not do any voltage loss
calcs, but it's for an older Linksys WRT54G which I understand has a
wide range voltage tolerance. Works fine, of course.

Yes, I had to zip-tie two cables instead of one to the post, but so
what?


I'm sure there are shortcomings to this that aren't evident in my
application, but it might work for you as well.

[seaweedsl]

Following a thread on Ubiquity products, I found this new AP/client
station which may be just what you are looking for:

http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1891


It comes with a power injector included.

Supposedly, this is a quality company that is a notch above consumer
grade. It includes a fairly wide angle directional antenna, so this
unit could work for you if you could install it high in a corner to
cover your library.

Seems like the perfect solution. You could buy two and stay under
budget !

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:52:15 -0700 (PDT), steve <stevesemple@lycos.com>
wrote:

>I have a small school library that I want to put a WIFI signal in. I
>want to use POE.
>
>Has anyone used any POE devices and can they recomend which ones to
>use. Im also wondering about having a POE access point rather than a
>Router, eg why ad another router that will just have to be set up etc.
>rather than an access point that negotiates with an existing router.
>(if you can do that with POE)

I don't have a full solution, mostly because you didn't bother to
supply any numbers (how many ap's, how many ports, how much bandwidth,
what else gets plugged in, etc). Some clue as to the existing
equipment would also be helpful. However, I think I can guess you're
using one or two AP's to cover the library. Methinks PoE is a waste
of time with such a small system, but if you're installing the AP in
the ceiling, it's a very practical way to power the AP. For such
small systems, a simple single port injector system works well. I've
been using Cisco AIR-PWRINJ1 injectors mostly because I got lucky
bidding on 10 of them on eBay. Make sure whatever you buy does
802.3af at the rated power of your proposed access points. Some of
the Dlink, Linksys, and other cheap injectors are nothing more than a
crude way to supply 5V or 12V DC to the access point over the CAT5
wiring. Look at the power supply with the injector. If it says
48VDC, you have "real" 802.11af. If it's 5V or 12V, it's junk.

There are larger systems called "wireless switch" systems that do what
you want, but are made to manage a large number of access points from
a central location, such as in a large office building. For example:
<http://www.airespace.com/products/AS_4000.php>
<http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/Wireless+LAN/Wireless+Switches>
<http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=features&pathtype=purchase&sku=3CRWX120695A>
Methinks these are overkill, but if your library is huge, they might
be a good idea. Also:
<http://www.arubanetworks.com/products/access_points.php>
Note that all of these will run off PoE from the "concentrator" (at
the bottom of the page).

However, if you wanna do this cheaply, you can build your own system.
Since you want to preserve the existing router and probably also have
an existing ethernet switch, you need is a midspan PoE injector. I've
used a Phihong POE125U-560-8:
<http://www.phihongusa.com/html/poe125u.html>
which worked well for about 3 months until it was stolen last week.

I'm not sure what to recommend for cheap access points. I don't know
if you need dual band, SNMP management, external antennas, seamless
roaming, MIMO speeds, multiple SSID's, or other features. Just about
anything will work with the Phihong PoE injector at 15 watts per port.
However, if you go for a higher power consumption device, you may need
to purchase one of their higher power units.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Aaron Leonard]

~ > A Linksys SRW208P switch is in that ballpark, and provides 15.4W 802.3af
~ > PoE on 4 ports (or 7.5W on 8 ports.)
~ >
~ > Next question is, what PoE powered APs are you going to use?
~ >
~
~ Aaron; it seems like you do have experience with POE, so I'm
~ wondering-
~
~ why you suggest a switch instead of an injector? In case he has to
~ install more than one AP?

Exactly so. We have customers who install hundreds of APs in a building,
and they certainly don't want to install hundreds of power injectors in
their switch rooms and wiring closets.

Another advantage of using a PoE switch is that you can power on/off
the AP under software control. For example, this will let you
powercycle a recalcitrant AP that is installed in some ceiling somewhere
from the comfort of your desk.

~ similarly, is a splitter not as good as an actual POE powered AP? Or
~ is it just the elegance factor?

The power injector can do just as good a job of delivering power to
the AP - but in large scale installations, the "elegance" factor is
decisive.

Regards,

Aaron

----

~ Otherwise, I'd think that $50-60 for an injector and splitter combo,
~ and then $60 for a Linksys WRT54GL (DD-WRT) would be a very cheap
~ solution. Oh, I see that Steve prefers less setup, so get a dedicated
~ AP/Client, same cost.
~
~ Again, I don't know squat, but how complicated can it be? It's just a
~ matter of breaking out a couple of wires and feeding them DC, right?
~
~ Steve: I have an installation with an ethernet client (same thing-
~ could be AP) up on pole in a rootenna box. Instead of POE, I just
~ ran some 16 ga. zip cord spliced it into the power supply cord for
~ the 30 feet I needed to run power. I did not do any voltage loss
~ calcs, but it's for an older Linksys WRT54G which I understand has a
~ wide range voltage tolerance. Works fine, of course.
~
~ Yes, I had to zip-tie two cables instead of one to the post, but so
~ what?
~
~
~ I'm sure there are shortcomings to this that aren't evident in my
~ application, but it might work for you as well.