Do any wireless APs support multiple keys?

[void.no.spam.com@gmail.com]

I have a 5 year old wireless AP that is starting to have some
problems, so I'm thinking about getting a new one. But one thing I
would really like is to be able to set multiple keys that can be used
at the same time. It would be nice to use one key for my own
computers, and another key for anyone who comes over and visits. With
my current AP, I set a key for my computers and then I forget what the
key is. Then if someone comes over with a laptop and wants to use the
wireless, it's a pain because I have to go back into the AP and
configure a new key, and then enter that new key back into my
computers. If I could just enter a second key into my AP, and have it
allow that key in addition to the first key, that would be great. I
could even delete the second key after the visitor leaves. Are there
any APs that let you do that?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 24 May 2008 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a 5 year old wireless AP that is starting to have some
>problems, so I'm thinking about getting a new one.

Ummm.... deteriorating performance might be an indication of
interference from other wireless systems. Try changing channels (1,
6, or 11) and see if it helps.

>But one thing I
>would really like is to be able to set multiple keys that can be used
>at the same time. It would be nice to use one key for my own
>computers, and another key for anyone who comes over and visits. With
>my current AP, I set a key for my computers and then I forget what the
>key is. Then if someone comes over with a laptop and wants to use the
>wireless, it's a pain because I have to go back into the AP and
>configure a new key, and then enter that new key back into my
>computers. If I could just enter a second key into my AP, and have it
>allow that key in addition to the first key, that would be great. I
>could even delete the second key after the visitor leaves. Are there
>any APs that let you do that?

Yep. One $40 cheapy that I sorta like is the MyEssentials ME1004-R.
<http://www.myessentialssupport.com/product/?pid=ME1004-R>
It has two WPA keys. One give you access to the LAN and the various
desktops. The other WPA key give you access only to the internet. See
the user manual for details. The nice part is that a "blank" key will
not work. It has to be a real WPA key (8 char minimum).

Note that the router itself is nothing wonderful or miraculous. It
has a non-removable antenna, fairly low power output (about 25mw), and
a modest mix of features. It also has a really irritating delay of
about 30 seconds every time you save your settings.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[void.no.spam.com@gmail.com]

On May 24, 3:38*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 May 2008 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I have a 5 year old wireless AP that is starting to have some
> >problems, so I'm thinking about getting a new one. *
>
> Ummm.... deteriorating performance might be an indication of
> interference from other wireless systems. *Try changing channels (1,
> 6, or 11) and see if it helps.

The problem isn't deteriorating performance. The AP doesn't have a
power button, it just turns on whenever you plug it in. But the last
couple times we've had a power outage, it has not turned back on when
the power comes back on. Both times, I had to plug and unplug it at
least 50 times before it finally turned on. But once it's on, it
works fine.


> >But one thing I
> >would really like is to be able to set multiple keys that can be used
> >at the same time. *It would be nice to use one key for my own
> >computers, and another key for anyone who comes over and visits. *With
> >my current AP, I set a key for my computers and then I forget what the
> >key is. *Then if someone comes over with a laptop and wants to use the
> >wireless, it's a pain because I have to go back into the AP and
> >configure a new key, and then enter that new key back into my
> >computers. *If I could just enter a second key into my AP, and have it
> >allow that key in addition to the first key, that would be great. *I
> >could even delete the second key after the visitor leaves. *Are there
> >any APs that let you do that?
>
> Yep. *One $40 cheapy that I sorta like is the MyEssentials ME1004-R.
> <http://www.myessentialssupport.com/product/?pid=ME1004-R>
> It has two WPA keys. *One give you access to the LAN and the various
> desktops. *The other WPA key give you access only to the internet. See
> the user manual for details. *The nice part is that a "blank" key will
> not work. *It has to be a real WPA key (8 char minimum).

Looks like that is sold as a Belkin. I just looked around, and it
appears that Belkin is the only company that offers APs/routers with a
"guest password" feature. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Belkin
APs/routers get very good reviews. I've seen quite a few reviews
where people say they drop connections frequently, and even stop
working after a couple months.

> Note that the router itself is nothing wonderful or miraculous. *It
> has a non-removable antenna, fairly low power output (about 25mw), and
> a modest mix of features. *It also has a really irritating delay of
> about 30 seconds every time you save your settings.

That doesn't seem like a big deal to me - how often do you change
settings?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 27 May 2008 13:27:03 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>The problem isn't deteriorating performance. The AP doesn't have a
>power button, it just turns on whenever you plug it in. But the last
>couple times we've had a power outage, it has not turned back on when
>the power comes back on. Both times, I had to plug and unplug it at
>least 50 times before it finally turned on. But once it's on, it
>works fine.

Your unspecified wireless router or access point certainly has a
problem. My guess(tm) is a failing clock oscillator. In effect,
you're "kick" starting it. Also, check the voltage from the wall wart
under load to see if it's close to the specified voltage.

>> Yep. *One $40 cheapy that I sorta like is the MyEssentials ME1004-R.
>> <http://www.myessentialssupport.com/product/?pid=ME1004-R>

>Looks like that is sold as a Belkin.

Yep. Belkin owns the company.

>I just looked around, and it
>appears that Belkin is the only company that offers APs/routers with a
>"guest password" feature.

I think Sonicwall also has this feature, but I'm not sure and can't
easily browse right now (slow packet radio link).

>Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Belkin
>APs/routers get very good reviews. I've seen quite a few reviews
>where people say they drop connections frequently, and even stop
>working after a couple months.

Yeah, that's about it. Belkin is about as bad as it gets. However,
those are complaints about routers made by Belkin, not about the ones
where Belkin bought the whole company. Also, every router
manufacturer has its winner and losers. You can't just generalize
that some vendors products are good or bad. It varies. For example,
the various mutations of the Linksys WRT54G vary from excellent to
dismal disaster.

I'm not sure how many of these I've sold, given away, used as a
loaner, or armtwisted the customer into trying. My guess is about 30
routers in the last year or so. No failures, no returns, no hangs, no
complaints, and no problems. Also no firmware updates, so it's not
going to keep up to date with the latest acronyms. I also haven't
beaten it to death running benchmarks:
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/>
I probably should, but haven't found a good reason to do it. Anyway,
$30 is cheap enough to try and toss if it doesn't meet your
expectations.

>That doesn't seem like a big deal to me - how often do you change
>settings?

With my own routers (office and home) running DD-WRT firmware, I tweak
the settings about once per week. It's mostly to simulate customer
problems and issues. For my customers, I usually change the WPA key
erratically, and backup the config files when convenient. That's
usually about 4 times during the typical 4-6 year router life.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

[void.no.spam.com@gmail.com]

On May 28, 12:10*am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 13:27:03 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >The problem isn't deteriorating performance. *The AP doesn't have a
> >power button, it just turns on whenever you plug it in. *But the last
> >couple times we've had a power outage, it has not turned back on when
> >the power comes back on. *Both times, I had to plug and unplug it at
> >least 50 times before it finally turned on. *But once it's on, it
> >works fine.
>
> Your unspecified wireless router or access point certainly has a
> problem. *My guess(tm) is a failing clock oscillator. *In effect,
> you're "kick" starting it. *Also, check the voltage from the wall wart
> under load to see if it's close to the specified voltage.

It is an Orinoco BG-2000. It's actually plugged in to a voltage
regulating UPS, so it probably is something going bad in the AP.


> >> Yep. *One $40 cheapy that I sorta like is the MyEssentials ME1004-R.
> >> <http://www.myessentialssupport.com/product/?pid=ME1004-R>
> >Looks like that is sold as a Belkin.
>
> Yep. *Belkin owns the company.
>
> >I just looked around, and it
> >appears that Belkin is the only company that offers APs/routers with a
> >"guest password" feature.
>
> I think Sonicwall also has this feature, but I'm not sure and can't
> easily browse right now (slow packet radio link).

I went to their web site and didn't see any wireless routers/APs.
Their products also seem to be targeted towards businesses.


> >Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Belkin
> >APs/routers get very good reviews. *I've seen quite a few reviews
> >where people say they drop connections frequently, and even stop
> >working after a couple months.
>
> Yeah, that's about it. *Belkin is about as bad as it gets. *However,
> those are complaints about routers made by Belkin, not about the ones
> where Belkin bought the whole company. *Also, every router
> manufacturer has its winner and losers. *You can't just generalize
> that some vendors products are good or bad. *It varies. *For example,
> the various mutations of the Linksys WRT54G vary from excellent to
> dismal disaster.
>
> I'm not sure how many of these I've sold, given away, used as a
> loaner, or armtwisted the customer into trying. *My guess is about 30
> routers in the last year or so. *No failures, no returns, no hangs, no
> complaints, and no problems. *Also no firmware updates, so it's not
> going to keep up to date with the latest acronyms. *I also haven't
> beaten it to death running benchmarks:
> <http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/>
> I probably should, but haven't found a good reason to do it. *Anyway,
> $30 is cheap enough to try and toss if it doesn't meet your
> expectations.
>
> >That doesn't seem like a big deal to me - how often do you change
> >settings?
>
> With my own routers (office and home) running DD-WRT firmware, I tweak
> the settings about once per week. *It's mostly to simulate customer
> problems and issues. *For my customers, I usually change the WPA key
> erratically, and backup the config files when convenient. *That's
> usually about 4 times during the typical 4-6 year router life.

I noticed that the Belkins only allow a guest WPA password. Do you
know if you can use WPA and WEP at the same time? Because I do have
one computer that is using a wireless adapter that only supports WEP.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:01:56 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>It is an Orinoco BG-2000. It's actually plugged in to a voltage
>regulating UPS, so it probably is something going bad in the AP.

That's usually quite good hardware. I have some experience with the
AP-1000 series. Some had been running 10 years without problems.
Sorry, but I don't have a clue what's failing.

>> I think Sonicwall also has this feature, but I'm not sure and can't
>> easily browse right now (slow packet radio link).
>
>I went to their web site and didn't see any wireless routers/APs.
>Their products also seem to be targeted towards businesses.

TZ150, TZ180, and TZ190 are all wireless routers. You're correct that
they're aimed at businesses. Probably overkill for you.

>I noticed that the Belkins only allow a guest WPA password. Do you
>know if you can use WPA and WEP at the same time? Because I do have
>one computer that is using a wireless adapter that only supports WEP.

As far as I can tell, only the MyEssentials has a guest feature.

Multiple encryption schemes are easily handled by using a router that
supports multiple SSID's. I'm currently logged into my Buffalo
WHR-HP-G54 with DD-WRT v24 firmware. I have two SSID's configured,
each with their own encryption method. I have one router setup with 6
different SSID's, one each for various types of encryption, for
testing buggy client software. There are a substantial number of
routers that support multiple SSID's, but I don't have a list. You
can also use the multiple SSID feature for your guest login where the
guest has their own SSID.

This might help:
<http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3710791>
<http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/10724_3714521_1>
<http://www.geek-pages.com/articles/latest/dd-wrt_-_multiple_ssids_-_1_for_fon_-_1_for_private_network.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[void.no.spam.com@gmail.com]

On May 28, 11:42*am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:01:56 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It is an Orinoco BG-2000. *It's actually plugged in to a voltage
> >regulating UPS, so it probably is something going bad in the AP.
>
> That's usually quite good hardware. *I have some experience with the
> AP-1000 series. *Some had been running 10 years without problems.
> Sorry, but I don't have a clue what's failing.

I think I'll try a different AC adapter to see if that's the problem.


> >> I think Sonicwall also has this feature, but I'm not sure and can't
> >> easily browse right now (slow packet radio link).
>
> >I went to their web site and didn't see any wireless routers/APs.
> >Their products also seem to be targeted towards businesses.
>
> TZ150, TZ180, and TZ190 are all wireless routers. *You're correct that
> they're aimed at businesses. *Probably overkill for you.
>
> >I noticed that the Belkins only allow a guest WPA password. *Do you
> >know if you can use WPA and WEP at the same time? *Because I do have
> >one computer that is using a wireless adapter that only supports WEP.
>
> As far as I can tell, only the MyEssentials has a guest feature. *
>
> Multiple encryption schemes are easily handled by using a router that
> supports multiple SSID's. *I'm currently logged into my Buffalo
> WHR-HP-G54 with DD-WRT v24 firmware. *I have two SSID's configured,
> each with their own encryption method. *I have one router setup with 6
> different SSID's, one each for various types of encryption, for
> testing buggy client software. *There are a substantial number of
> routers that support multiple SSID's, but I don't have a list. *You
> can also use the multiple SSID feature for your guest login where the
> guest has their own SSID. *
>
> This might help:
> <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3710791>
> <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/10724_3714521_1>
> <http://www.geek-pages.com/articles/latest/dd-wrt_-_multiple_ssids_-_1...>

I didn't know about this multiple SSID concept. That would definitely
be a way to implement a guest password, and to use WPA and WEP for
different clients. Thanks for mentioning that, Jeff, I'll look into
it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:06:18 -0700 (PDT), "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>I think I'll try a different AC adapter to see if that's the problem.

One other item. Some of the Lucent/Orinoco/Airport wireless routers
had defective capacitors that caused problems. See photos near the
bottom of:
<http://www.vonwentzel.net/ABS/Repair/>
Open the box, and look at the tops of the electrolytic capacitors. If
they're bulging, even slightly, they're dead. If you can solder, it's
an easy replacment.

>> This might help:
>> <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3710791>
>> <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/10724_3714521_1>
>> <http://www.geek-pages.com/articles/latest/dd-wrt_-_multiple_ssids_-_1...>
>
>I didn't know about this multiple SSID concept. That would definitely
>be a way to implement a guest password, and to use WPA and WEP for
>different clients. Thanks for mentioning that, Jeff, I'll look into
>it.

Yep. Sorry I didn't think of it earlier. I don't usually use
multiple SSID's for guest logins and I consider WEP a security
problem, so I have little ocassion to use it in the manner your
suggesting.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558