How to shield off wifi/wireless?

[Andrew Engels Rump]

Hi

I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
of shielding wifi from the outside world!

We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
technicians.

Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
shielding paint? I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business) and also an ACM
article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
windows!!! :-)

Any experience?

Andrew Engels Rump

[DTC]

Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
> one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
> with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
> technicians.

Civil lawsuit for willful and intentional malicious activity to disrupt
a business. May not get you anywhere, but might scare the pants off him.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
wrote:

>I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
>of shielding wifi from the outside world!

<http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6240-stealth-wallpaper-keeps-company-secrets-safe.html>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[LR]

Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
> of shielding wifi from the outside world!
>
> We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
> used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
> but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
> with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
> technicians.
>
> Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
> shielding paint? I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
> Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business) and also an ACM
> article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
> it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
> would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
> windows!!! :-)
>
> Any experience?
>
> Andrew Engels Rump
http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
http://www.lessemf.com/plastic.html

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
wrote:

>I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
>of shielding wifi from the outside world!

Yes. Some of my high-rise office building customers, that have glass
walls through which they pickup considerable interference, were having
problems. I solved most of them by carefully locating the access
points and client radios, eliminating un-necessary wireless links, and
switching from 2.4 to 5.7GHz wireless.

>We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
>used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
>but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
>with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
>technicians.

I've had similar problems with wireless hackers. I personal
visitation was usually all that was required to get their attention.
They usually think they can get away with anything as long as they are
not identified. If you know who they are and what they're doing, the
picture changes considerably. However, if they fail to cooperate,
calling in the law doesn't do much good. I have other methods of
getting their attention, but none of them are legal, so I won't
itemize.

If the neighbor is fairly close, just install a large dish antenna on
your building pointed directly at him. You don't have to connect
anything to it, just make sure he can see it. His imagination will do
the rest.

>Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
>shielding paint?

No. Silver doped paint is useful for small areas and is of course
rather expensive. The carbon filled stuff (Aquadag) doesnt' really
work too well at 2.4GHz. Your best bet is aluminum foil. I've built
shield rooms in the distant past out of sheet copper, brass screening,
and berillium finger stock. It's not cheap and very difficult to keep
microwave frequencies out completely. A small gap is enough to pass
some signal. I don't think you need much in the way of attenuation to
keep out the neighbors. Some brass screening on the facing doors and
walls should be sufficient.

Radio service shops also have similar problems with on channel RF
interference. It's very difficult to tune up a receiver when there's
a high power transmitter next door on the same frequency. Some rent
large metal storage containers and use them as screen rooms. There
are also small RF shielded boxes that will do the job.
<http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/te/default.asp?page=rften>
There are also small test boxes designed for wireless testing that I'm
too lazy to dig out the URL.

Lots depends on what manner of testing you're doing. Turning your
test lab into an RF echo chamber will not help much. You might want
to look into RF absorptive materials instead of RF reflective.

>I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
>Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business)

<http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>

>and also an ACM
>article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
>it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
>would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
>windows!!! :-)

Well, you're not trying to block *ALL* frequencies, just 2.4 and
possibly 5.7GHz. You don't need the ultimate in shielding to do that.
A metal screen door, metal window screens, some aluminum foil or mesh,
and you'll block most of the junk.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Stephen]

On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:41:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On 20 May 2008 13:29:22 GMT, Andrew Engels Rump <newandrew@rump.dk>
>wrote:
>
>>I have been searching hi and low for something which may solve my problem
>>of shielding wifi from the outside world!
>
>Yes. Some of my high-rise office building customers, that have glass
>walls through which they pickup considerable interference, were having
>problems. I solved most of them by carefully locating the access
>points and client radios, eliminating un-necessary wireless links, and
>switching from 2.4 to 5.7GHz wireless.
>
>>We (pulz8 Communications) are testing wifi/wireless connections to be
>>used on trains (for instance to provide wifi or CCTV to the passengers)
>>but one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
>>with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
>>technicians.
>
>I've had similar problems with wireless hackers. I personal
>visitation was usually all that was required to get their attention.
>They usually think they can get away with anything as long as they are
>not identified. If you know who they are and what they're doing, the
>picture changes considerably. However, if they fail to cooperate,
>calling in the law doesn't do much good. I have other methods of
>getting their attention, but none of them are legal, so I won't
>itemize.
>
>If the neighbor is fairly close, just install a large dish antenna on
>your building pointed directly at him. You don't have to connect
>anything to it, just make sure he can see it. His imagination will do
>the rest.
>
>>Are there anyone out there who have experience in painting a room with
>>shielding paint?
>
>No. Silver doped paint is useful for small areas and is of course
>rather expensive. The carbon filled stuff (Aquadag) doesnt' really
>work too well at 2.4GHz. Your best bet is aluminum foil. I've built
>shield rooms in the distant past out of sheet copper, brass screening,
>and berillium finger stock. It's not cheap and very difficult to keep
>microwave frequencies out completely. A small gap is enough to pass
>some signal. I don't think you need much in the way of attenuation to
>keep out the neighbors. Some brass screening on the facing doors and
>walls should be sufficient.
>
>Radio service shops also have similar problems with on channel RF
>interference. It's very difficult to tune up a receiver when there's
>a high power transmitter next door on the same frequency. Some rent
>large metal storage containers and use them as screen rooms. There
>are also small RF shielded boxes that will do the job.
><http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/te/default.asp?page=rften>
>There are also small test boxes designed for wireless testing that I'm
>too lazy to dig out the URL.
>
>Lots depends on what manner of testing you're doing. Turning your
>test lab into an RF echo chamber will not help much. You might want
>to look into RF absorptive materials instead of RF reflective.
>
>>I have found reference to Spyguard and Force Field
>>Wireless (which apparently has gone out of business)
>
><http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>
>
>>and also an ACM
>>article and other pages on the internet which describes how to make a (no
>>it is not a) "Faraday cage" but because of the nature of our hardware we
>>would like to take the paint approach - unfortunately our test room has
>>windows!!! :-)

Virgin trains in the UK have sets with gold film coated windows (to
reduce solar gain on our rare sunny warm days).

it plays havoc with GSM phone reception (1.9 GHz?) - so much so that
you only get useful reception near a station, or where the lines goes
thru the suburbs with heavy cell coverage.

If maybe it will help tame 2.4 G WLAN?
>
>Well, you're not trying to block *ALL* frequencies, just 2.4 and
>possibly 5.7GHz. You don't need the ultimate in shielding to do that.
>A metal screen door, metal window screens, some aluminum foil or mesh,
>and you'll block most of the junk.
--
Regards

stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

[Andrew Engels Rump]

I demand that DTC on Tue, 20 May 2008 10:44:38 -0500 may or may not have
written:
> Andrew Engels Rump wrote:
>> one of our neighbours is a script kiddie who loves to fill the ether
>> with disassociation frames causing a lot of extra problems for our
>> technicians.
> Civil lawsuit for willful and intentional malicious activity to disrupt
> a business. May not get you anywhere, but might scare the pants off him.

Well I got a representative from the Danish authorities to come by today
but I do not have that high hopes because their "radiocar" has been by in
the past.

Andrew