Looking for open-source home DSL gateway software & hardware to run it

[Al Dykes]

I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on and I'm looking
for make and model sugggestions and ideas.

Cheap is good but an old PC has a big electric bill and is otherwise
uninteresting. I want an appliance. The box does NOT have to do WiFi.

I want a router that I can put some open-source software into that
gives me unix-ish network tools. The only open source I know of is
DD-WRT and that seems to be a WiFi system.

I've played with m0n0 and smoothwall and I would consider running either
if a sub-$100 dollar box can be identified that they run on.

I know that out-of-the box Linux can do this but I'd like to identify
a distro that gets me runnig quickly and lets some community look for
security problems and upgrades and can help, if needed.

Suggestions?




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

[Doug McIntyre]

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on and I'm looking
>for make and model sugggestions and ideas.

>Cheap is good but an old PC has a big electric bill and is otherwise
>uninteresting. I want an appliance. The box does NOT have to do WiFi.

>I want a router that I can put some open-source software into that
>gives me unix-ish network tools. The only open source I know of is
>DD-WRT and that seems to be a WiFi system.

OpenWRT is the more general one.

>I've played with m0n0 and smoothwall and I would consider running either
>if a sub-$100 dollar box can be identified that they run on.

Sub-$100 means that you're going to be taking an off-the-shelf consumer
device and retasking it with your own software.

OpenWRT and its descendants will get you Linux running on an off-the-shelf
router for the chipsets they support. Many of those boxes ran linux as
it was anyway.

Also, sub-$100 appliance form means that you have to make substantial cuts
in hardware features, which means its not a PC any longer, which means
you have to get specialized like OpenWRT.

[Al Dykes]

In article <4729fb10$0$90421$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com>,
Doug McIntyre <merlyn@geeks.org> wrote:
>adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
>>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on and I'm looking
>>for make and model sugggestions and ideas.
>
>>Cheap is good but an old PC has a big electric bill and is otherwise
>>uninteresting. I want an appliance. The box does NOT have to do WiFi.
>
>>I want a router that I can put some open-source software into that
>>gives me unix-ish network tools. The only open source I know of is
>>DD-WRT and that seems to be a WiFi system.
>
>OpenWRT is the more general one.
>


TNX, that's new to me.

[Doug McIntyre]

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
>In article <4729fb10$0$90421$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com>,
>Doug McIntyre <merlyn@geeks.org> wrote:
>>adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes:
>>>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on and I'm looking
>>>for make and model sugggestions and ideas.
>>
>>>Cheap is good but an old PC has a big electric bill and is otherwise
>>>uninteresting. I want an appliance. The box does NOT have to do WiFi.
>>
>>>I want a router that I can put some open-source software into that
>>>gives me unix-ish network tools. The only open source I know of is
>>>DD-WRT and that seems to be a WiFi system.
>>
>>OpenWRT is the more general one.

>TNX, that's new to me.

There's lots of varients of both. The Wikipedia entries for both have
lots of pointers off to various projects associated or
not-so-associated with them.

[Timothy Daniels]

"Al Dykes" wrote:
> I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...

Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
plain ol' router? I presume that there will be a network
interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?

*TimDaniels*

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "Al Dykes" wrote:
>
>>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...

> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
> How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
> plain ol' router?

A DSL router should be the same as a cable router.

The difference from a traditional IP router is that NAT is
the default, and maybe the only option. Also, most now
have a built-in ethernet switch to allow more than one
LAN port, rare for a traditional router.

> I presume that there will be a network
> interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
> various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
> DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?

An "ethernet" router should route more than one protocol.
Besides IP there are DECnet and Appletalk (EtherTalk), and
IPX that are commonly used. I don't know of any cable/DSL
routers that do that with the included software.

-- glen

[Timothy Daniels]

"glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Al Dykes" wrote:
>>
>>>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...
>
>> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
>> How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
>> plain ol' router?
>
> A DSL router should be the same as a cable router.
>
> The difference from a traditional IP router is that NAT is
> the default, and maybe the only option. Also, most now
> have a built-in ethernet switch to allow more than one
> LAN port, rare for a traditional router.
>
>> I presume that there will be a network
>> interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
>> various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
>> DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?
>
> An "ethernet" router should route more than one protocol.
> Besides IP there are DECnet and Appletalk (EtherTalk), and
> IPX that are commonly used. I don't know of any cable/DSL
> routers that do that with the included software.


Thanks, Glen. It sounds, then, that "DSL router" and
"cable router" and "broadband router" are all the same thing.
It also sounds like that if Al Dykes wants such an appliance
with low power usage (and quiet convection cooling), he
should go with something much cheaper than $100 - such as
this D-Link unit for $34 :
http://www.3gplaza.com/estore/control/3gplaza/productdetails?id=59120

*TimDaniels*

[GlowingBlueMist]

"Timothy Daniels" <SpamBucket@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote in message
news:472ba39b$0$4999$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "glen herrmannsfeldt" wrote:
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>> "Al Dykes" wrote:
>>>
>>>>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...
>>
>>> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
>>> How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
>>> plain ol' router?
>>
>> A DSL router should be the same as a cable router.
>>
>> The difference from a traditional IP router is that NAT is
>> the default, and maybe the only option. Also, most now
>> have a built-in ethernet switch to allow more than one
>> LAN port, rare for a traditional router.
>>
>>> I presume that there will be a network
>>> interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
>>> various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
>>> DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?
>>
>> An "ethernet" router should route more than one protocol.
>> Besides IP there are DECnet and Appletalk (EtherTalk), and
>> IPX that are commonly used. I don't know of any cable/DSL
>> routers that do that with the included software.
>
>
> Thanks, Glen. It sounds, then, that "DSL router" and
> "cable router" and "broadband router" are all the same thing.
> It also sounds like that if Al Dykes wants such an appliance
> with low power usage (and quiet convection cooling), he
> should go with something much cheaper than $100 - such as
> this D-Link unit for $34 :
> http://www.3gplaza.com/estore/control/3gplaza/productdetails?id=59120
>
> *TimDaniels*
Be sure to find out if your present connection is using PPPoE or PPPoA as
it's connection protocol so you can get the right router. Not all of them
support both protocols and Telco's use which ever one came with the hardware
they inherited during a buy-out or was purchased by management. I have seen
neighborhoods in the same city use both protocols depending on which Telco
router was the first device that the particular location contacted to feed
them the DSL signal.

[Al Dykes]

In article <472b601c$0$19586$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Timothy Daniels <SpamBucket@NoSpamPlease.biz> wrote:
>"Al Dykes" wrote:
>> I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...
>
> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
>How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
>plain ol' router? I presume that there will be a network
>interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
>various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
>DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?
>
>*TimDaniels*


I should have said broadband router. That would cover cable and DSL
service. The physical interface is the same, a UPT ethernet cable and
PPPoE is on or off depending on the ISP in use.

"ethernet router" covers lots of ground and in corporate stuff
wouldn't be expected to have PPPoE, NAT, DHCP, etc unless the buyer
made sure it did and the services might be off, by default.

[Timothy Daniels]

"Al Dykes" wrote:
>... broadband router. That would cover cable and DSL
> service. The physical interface is the same, a UPT ethernet
> cable and PPPoE is on or off depending on the ISP in use.
>
> "ethernet router" covers lots of ground and in corporate stuff
> wouldn't be expected to have PPPoE, NAT, DHCP, etc
> unless the buyer made sure it did and the services might be off,
> by default.


It sounds like an "Ethernet router" would be more basic,
and the higher level protocols like IP and PPPoE and DHCP
would ride on top of the Ethernet routing and would be supplied
by computers that the router connects. Is that close?

*TimDaniels*

[DLR]

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "Al Dykes" wrote:
>> I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...
>
> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
> How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
> plain ol' router? I presume that there will be a network
> interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
> various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
> DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?
>
From what I'm seeing, more and more DSL install use a combination modem and router with NAT enabled by default. You have to ask for bridged mode where it only functions as a modem and thus you get control over what happens to routing and log in.

Most cable installs these days seem to be just a plain modem where you get your IP via DHCP. At least the Time Warner and Comcast situations I've seen recently.

So many folks who talk about a DSL router can be considered somewhat correct. Just too terse for complete accuracy.

David

[YeOldeStonecat]

www.untangle.com
www.endian.it

Two of my preferred *nix based firewalls...these are a cut above the more popular ones like IPCop, Smoothwall, m0n0wall, pfsense, clarkconnect....because these are more than just a router...they are UTM appliances..Unified Threat Management...they scrub traffic for viruses/worms, and remove spam from e-mail..via transparent proxy.

[Timothy Daniels]

"DLR" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Al Dykes" wrote:
>>> I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on...
>>
>> Please excuse my ignorance (as I'm router-challenged).
>> How does a DSL router differ from a cable router or a just
>> plain ol' router? I presume that there will be a network
>> interface ("modem") of sorts, and that from there to the
>> various computers there will be Ethernet. So how does a
>> DSL router differ from an Ethernet router?
>>
> From what I'm seeing, more and more DSL install use a
> combination modem and router with NAT enabled by default.
>You have to ask for bridged mode where it only functions as
> a modem and thus you get control over what happens to
> routing and log in.
>
> Most cable installs these days seem to be just a plain modem
> where you get your IP via DHCP. At least the Time Warner
> and Comcast situations I've seen recently.


That's what I have - just a "modem" (or "bridge", as I've
read in Usenet postings). That has been the case for MediaOne/
ATT/Comcast/TimeWarner here for 8 years. Obviously, I only
have one PC. I just can't wait to get a 2nd PC so I can start
playing LAN admin and haunting the router newsgroups. :-)

*TimDaniels*

[Bob Vaughan]

In article <fgcocb$beq$1@panix5.panix.com>, Al Dykes <adykes@panix.com> wrote:
>
>I feel the need for a new home dsl router coming on and I'm looking
>for make and model sugggestions and ideas.
>
>Cheap is good but an old PC has a big electric bill and is otherwise
>uninteresting. I want an appliance. The box does NOT have to do WiFi.
>
>I want a router that I can put some open-source software into that
>gives me unix-ish network tools. The only open source I know of is
>DD-WRT and that seems to be a WiFi system.
>
>I've played with m0n0 and smoothwall and I would consider running either
>if a sub-$100 dollar box can be identified that they run on.
>
>I know that out-of-the box Linux can do this but I'd like to identify
>a distro that gets me runnig quickly and lets some community look for
>security problems and upgrades and can help, if needed.
>
>Suggestions?

You could go with the Linksys WRT-54G V.4 or the WRT-54GL, both of which
run Linux. Stay away from the WRT-54G V.5, which is stripped down (2Mb flash,
8Mb ram), and runs VxWorks. The WRT-54G V.4 and the WRT-54GL have 4Mb flash,
16Mb ram.

If you want more horsepower, and are willing to spend a bit more, look at
the Soekris, PC Engines, or Microtik boards, or one of the mini/micro
ITX systems.

www.soekris.com
www.routerboard.com
www.pcengines.ch
www.mini-itx.com
www.mini-box.com


--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --