Can Routers Accelerate Net Speed? [Archive] - SpeedGuide.net Broadband Community

bettysue

04-11-06, 12:34 AM

With all the new faster routers on the shelves, I'm wondering if the ones that meet and exceed the 802.11g standard are capable of making an internet connection faster than it is.

In otherwords can they work like those dial-up accelerators and increase connection speed beyond it's preset speed?

I currently have a Linksys BEFSR11 802.11b router. 802.11b standards are supposed to support up to 11Mbps speeds. My Roadrunner account speed is 7Mbps. Would a 802.11g router increase my speed beyond the 7Mbps?

I am asking as so far I have tried the Belkin G Plus router (and matching card) and the Linksys WRT54G (and matching usb adapter) and I have had no increase in internet speed. In fact with the Linksys my speed tested lower than it does with my built in adapter and the BEFSR11 router.

The Speed Test results using the 1.04Mb file with 5 itinerations averages 10Mbps download and .49Mbps upload. (test link: http://speedtest.cfl.mybrighthouse.com)

I ran the test again after using the optimizer tool and the results were the same.

The other computer on the network has an average download speed of 16Mbps and download of .52Mbps. The main difference in the 2 systems is that the second one (16Mbps) has the Intel Pro gigabit adapter built on which is 10/100/1000. Mine is just 10/100. I am assuming this would account for the speed difference.

So would a new router increase my speed at all? Would I be better off keeping the old router and buying a pci 10/100/1000 card?

I'm also wondering if it turns out a new router will help, if I need to use the matching network card? I ask as when I tried the Belkin router and card, we couldn't get it to connect to the internet or the home network. So we called tech support. The tech said that their matching card wouldn't work, that we needed a 3com card instead. Needless to say, the response was confusing at best.

Sorry to go on so long, I am just trying to give as many details and combine my questions.

Thank You,

Betty

------------------------
Brighthouse Cable/RR 7Mbps/Webstar Ethernet internet & voice modem/Linksys BEFSR11/Via Rhine II Built-on MSI KT4AV MB

Win XP Home/KT4AV MB/1gig PC3200 ram/AMD XP 3000/Radeon 9200 256meg graphics

YeOldeStonecat

04-11-06, 06:46 AM

Moving from B to G, you should have seen a gain in internet speed...depending on what your B setup was actually giving you for throughput (often just 2-3 megs).

G usually gives you more reliably around 15 - 20 megs.

The newer Pre-N/MIMO routers are quite strong in throughput, such as the wrt54gx4...those are excellent.

For the actual speedtests...try averaging a few other more neutral sites, such as http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ Curious what you'd get if you plugged your PC right into the cable modem (make sure you at least have your XP firewall put up, and the local admin password on your PC has a real password.

To sum up what you're asking...routers don't accelerate your internet speed...but some don't slow you down as much as others. You can establish your baseline by plugging a PC directly into your broadband modem. Just..take precautions in doing so to protect this PC, as you don't have your hardware NAT blocking you.

bettysue

04-11-06, 08:43 AM

For the actual speedtests...try averaging a few other more neutral sites, such as http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ Curious what you'd get if you plugged your PC right into the cable modem (make sure you at least have your XP firewall put up, and the local admin password on your PC has a real password.

As suggested I tried a few more tests on different sites with my 802.11b Linksys. According to Brighthouse/Roadrunner the home account I have is 7Mbps.

Brighthouse: 10Mpbs download .49Mbps upload
Speakeasy: 8308Kbps download 444Kbps
TheBandwidthPace: 6536Kbps download
Cable-Modem.net: 5.9Mbps download
Dslreports.com: 2772Kbps
PcPitStop: 7422Kbps

I have tried a few times to do a direct connect with the modem, however it can never find the internet when I try it. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong, or what I need to do to make it work.

Do the corresponding network cards for the routers increase speed at all? So far the sets I've tried haven't gained me anything. Would I be better off just getting a gigabit pci card instead?

Thank you again for the advice,

Betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-11-06, 09:05 AM

Nah don't bother with gigabit LAN.

What's hard to figure out...is your large difference in speeds between your two systems.

Add to the fact, that the tests internal to your ISP, the Brighthouse speed test, shows a rate higher (10 megs, and 15 megs) than what your package is supposed to be, 7 megs.

A unique circumstance.

Routers....a quick overview. Most broadband routers designed for home, are combination gateway devices. They share the internet, and usually have a built in 4 port 10/100 switch, and some models have a built in wireless access point, for example, lets use a wireless G unit, up to 54 megs. The built in switch can transfer across the LAN up to its rated speed, 100 megs. The built in wireless can transfer up to its max rated speed, lets say 54 megs (really less due to wireless factors...but into that later). However, any traffic from PCs...out to the internet...are bottlenecked by your connection to the ISP...in your case, it's supposed to be 7 megs.

So even though a PC could be connected to your router using a patch cable on a 10/100 NIC...any online speed test should max out at 7 megs. Or...if any PC is connected to the router using wireless, the max speed should still be 7 megs. In theory, the bottleneck should be the WAN connection..7 megs.

Wireless speeds...what they can get "up to", and what they realistically get, are usually 2x different things. It may tell you it's connecting at 11 megs, or 54 megs, etc...but if you run a good beefy file transfer, you may find it's actually 3 or 4 megs worth of throughput for a B wireless, or 15 megs worth on a G unit. Or on some of the new MIMO units like the wrt54gx4...closer to 80 megs worth of the 124. So from what I've experienced with wireless, and based on your broadband speeds, B should be the bottleneck in your case, since real throughput should actually be 3-4-ish megs worth..maybe 5 or so on an ideal setup, G or MIMO should not be.

Now, you have some weird factors here..it's tough to decide without getting an actual baseline measurement..meaning a PC directly connected to your broadband modem....and running several speedtests from several different sources to get a good average of each. Seeing you mention your connection should be 7 megs...and seeing you mention that one PC gets a 15 meg test...just makes me raise my eyebrow. Unless your ISP hosts its speedtesting site before the point where they throttle you. Dunno. That's why I'd also want to factor in several other speedtest sites. Get an average for each, on each PC..then start with that.

Wow I'm rambling today. Time to finish my coffee and get to some onsites....clients waiting.

Bottom line....todays current generation of routers are faster, more powerful, than older models of routers. The new wireless technologies are also much better, more secure, etc. Especially new MIMO routers. They should slow you down less than older routers. An excellent model that I'm setting up lots of lately for clients...the Linksys wrt54gx4. And...with Pre-N/MIMO, you don't NEED a matching NIC, you can still use older B and G NICs to benefit from the distance gains. Each NIC will only max out speeds at what its rated for though..if you need the increase in speed past 100 megs..you'll need a matching Pre-N/MIMO NIC also.

bettysue

04-11-06, 05:39 PM

Thank you so much for all that info. I have been searching for those answers for quite a while. I guess I just hadn't found the right site yet ;)

I was looking through Compusa on line this afternoon and came across the Netgear WGU624 Double 108 Mbps Wireless Router, 802.11g, b, a. It operates on both 2.4 and 5ghz.

What drew my attention is the fact that until 4/15 there are mail in rebates through Compusa only that take $80 off thus making it only $19.99 after rebates. They have a similar deal with the matching pc and laptop adapters that end up being $9.99 after rebates.

The only bad part is the closest store where they are in stock is about 50 miles from me. However for that price it would be worth the trip.

Another downside is that I know nothing and have heard nothing about this router. I don't know if it is reliable, holds a connection, etc. I also don't know if it's one of the ones that would get rid of my 802.11b bottleneck, or if it's one I need the matching card to get the most out of it.

If I do need the card, would I also need it on the system that has the gigabit network adapter?

Any advice on this router and card would be greatly appreciated.

Betty

Britten

04-12-06, 12:24 AM

ok... is your wireless NIC 802.11b? or g? if it is b... then you will need to upgrade your NIC to get rid of the potential bottleneck in your network.... as far as that router goes.... i have 2 friends that have that exact one... i dont as i am stil using my netgear one from like 1.5 years ago... sooo... from what i have experienced... netgear routers are very reliable... my friends with this router agree and add that they really enjoy the added distance they get... they now can use the laptop in the bathroom thats in the back of the house near the washer that never got signal before... why do they need the internet in there? ill never know... but my guess it that it stems from their IRC addictions.... if you get your router and your wireless NIC to operate at g or above... you will be able to use the full through-put of your roadrunner connection... in thoery.. this does not take into consideration if you are reaching extremely long distances with this wireless network... on a further note.. you do not need a 10/100/1000 (gigabit) NIC for your PC.... it would be a waste of money if your goal is to get your max internet connection... as a normal 10/100 NIC will be more than enough.

bettysue

04-12-06, 12:47 AM

Hi Britten,

Thank you for the info on the router! I had returned the Linksys G and the usb card I bought for it earlier today as it actually operated slower than my Linksys Wireless 802.11b router. I have no clue why, but it did. I thought maybe with the card it would speed up, but alas I was wrong.

Although compared to the Belkin Super G I bought and returned, the Linksys was a dream to set up. Tech support at Belkin finally told us to return theirs...lol

With the rebates on the Netgear (only thru 4/15 through Compusa), to have it ending up costing only $19.99 is a deal I need. My monthly disability only goes so far when it comes to the real and tech worlds.

I had also considered getting the matching wireless network card as after rebates it is only $9.99, as is the laptop one. According to what I read on the Netgear site (I think it was there) that in order to get the optimum results on the modems that are rated between 54Mbps and 108Mbps, that you need to get the card.

I tried to find the network specs for my built in adapter and can find nothing other than 10/100. I don't know if they get rated like the regular cards as to 802.11b, a, g, etc.

My other halfs system downloads faster than mine. I'm guessing it's because his built in adapter is the Intel Gigabit which bypasses PCI and uses something different and so doesn't have to share the 133mhz pci with anything. (or so I read - I'm not that smart!)

So taking the rebates into consideration, what is the general opinion on getting the wireless card to go with the router? Would it be a wast of money, or be worth it now, or if roadrunner increases their speed again?

If I get the router it will be later today (argh it's getting late here in FL!), as he has the day off and the store is 50 miles from here that has it in stock (the big O town :) ).

So any advice on the card will also be appreciated.

Thank you again for the info about the router. Real life as opposed to some review sites says a lot more as they don't need to keep their sponsors happy!

Betty

<BTW since I have mentioned this Compusa rebate sale twice, I just want to add that I am in no way affiliated with, own shares in, work for, know anyone that works for, or have any associations with Compusa or any other computer supplier>

Britten

04-12-06, 12:59 AM

lol... your disclaimer is funny... ok heres the deal... the 10/100 card buit in to your computer, is a wired ethernet card.... you have to plug an ethernet cable into it.... and then the other end... into the router... this is NOT wireless... when we are tlaking about 802.11b/g we are tlaking about your computer and the router talking to each other using NO wires... i think that the matching card for 9.99 is a good deal... assuming you dont forget to mail in the rebate... if you are using a wire to plug your computer in to your router right now.. you probably will not get any difference in speed no matter how many routers you use, as they all run at either 10 or 100 Mb/s. now that gigabit you are mentioning... again part of the wired world... that is a wired card... for using a cat5 cable.... this will let you increase the speed between your router (if it is gigabit) and your computer.. but this is unnessisary as your ISP limits you to 7Mb/s and your current wired connection will run at 100Mb/s... there i no need to goto 1000Mb/s untill your ISP increases your speed i would say anywhere over 66Mb/s... which i dont see hapening in the life of your router or network card.... so the bottom line is.... do you want to use a wire or not?

bettysue

04-12-06, 01:32 AM

Glad you liked the disclaimer :) I figured since I just joined yesterday and had mentioned the rebates so many times, I better let the resident guru's know that I am not associated with anything. Which actually makes me sound like I need a life...lol

Again thank you for the great advice.

If I understand you correctly, the system with the gigabit adapter will probably be a pile of ashes before the roadrunner connection gets too fast for it.

My system is kind of on the border for the network card. It might help bottlenecks and may go faster or may not. It will mainly allow my system to add portability. For the end price of $9.99, provided I rmember to mail it in, it couldn't hurt one way or the other. (feel free to correct my assumptions)

When I think about the price and the wirelss feature especially for extended ranges, I am leaning toward getting the card. It's a bit early but sometime in the coming months I will need a serious surgery on my left ankle, which will have a minimum of 6 months healing time. The wireless card would enable me to move my computer to the bedroom, or livingroom or wherever I could sit comfortably in a wheelchair on on the edge of the bed.

So barring any warnings of buyer beware or cons about the router and/or card, I guess I'll be going to Orlando tomorrow. Of course with the prices that gas hit today, we may burn up the rebate driving there!!

Thank you again Britten,

betty

bettysue

04-12-06, 02:07 AM

Ok, now I'm tired and confused..again!

I just went to the site with the rebates on the Netgear products and the desktop card is sold out now.

So I went to Circuit City to see if they had it and started to read the user reviews on the cards. Apparently some who have purchased it have had serious install and usage problems on AMD systems (which I have).

Another user said if you have AMD not to get anything Netgear.

I hate it when a plan goes awry! Any suggestions on a good compatible card, or does anyone know of an AMD friendly router/card?

Thank you yet again!

betty

Added-
I just read abut one of these gaming routers. Are they any good for regular internet speed if you don't play games? I looked at the D-Link Broadband Gigabit Gaming Router (DGL-4100) which has 4 gigabit connections in it and one 10/100. Would this be useful at all to break over the 802.11b barrier, or is it a waste of money if you don't play games?

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-12-06, 07:23 AM

The gigabit connections won't really do much for you unless you have several computers on the LAN side with giga NICs...and even then..it will only be for PC to PC transfers across your LAN. I'm not sure if it supports jumbo frames either...to get true giga performance.

If I'm not mistaking...you're looking for top wireless performance?

I'm not a fan of Netgear products..so I wouldn't worry about the loss of that deal at Comp. If you come across it again, it's such a deal, might as well try it...but of the popular brands of routers that I work on for my job..some of the recent Netgear products have given me quite a bit of grief. I used to love them as a brand years ago..when they were owned by BayNetworks. Something changed with them as a company...stuff has gone downhill IMO.

Britten

04-12-06, 10:00 AM

what do you recommend now? Linksys? D-Link? just curious... i have had alot of problems with my linksys routers and switches (that was 4 years ago now) so i got a bad taste in my mouth... just wondering if they had made a come back in the problems area....

YeOldeStonecat

04-12-06, 10:30 AM

I tend to lean more towards Linksys routers...out of all the brands I've worked with for the home market (it's covered most of the brands over the years)...having installed several hundred of them, there are a few models I stick with, some I stay away from, and knowing which firmware versions are most stable.

Netgear...I used to like, but around 4 or so years ago..started disliking them. Also I got burned several times from the so called support..left me hanging in a bad way with some clients.

DLink...I'm so-so on.

Belkin...I used to hate them years ago...but in the past 2 years they've gotten quite decent.

bettysue

04-12-06, 11:26 AM

YeOldeStonecat-

I know it's difficult to recommend a specific model for fear of users coming back here and if they have a problem try and blame the source. The old shoot the messenger theme.

Saying that, is there a review source on te site that might indicate which routers and cards have been tested and found to work better than others?

You mention Linksys quote often. As your post said some have worked great, others not so good. Could you let us know which models have worked best for you based on your experience? It would help if you also have had experience with any routers on AMD systems which seems to be a new issue I found.

I know at least in my case, I can read any suggestions posted in these forums and any others I find, but ultimately it's up to me to make the final decision and research the recommendations based on my use, machines, etc.

For example, you posted a day or so ago that there was new firmware out for the WRTGX4 (which you replied to my question on), so I'm assuming that is a Linksys model that you either use or have used.

We have a total of 3 computers that use the network, an Intel p4 2.6Mhz desktop, an Intel p4 3.06Mhz laptop, and my AMD 3000+. Has anyone had network experience with a "mixed family" of systems similar to mine? If so what worked and didn't workfor you?

My decision will not be solely based on recommendations, as I'm a big girl and need to decide for myself. The issue is that there are so many choices, sppeds, brands with more coming out every week that we who are more users than techs get lost in the land of speeds and specs.

Our main use of the network is to work on e-commerce stores that we design and do a lot of ftp client uploading and downloading. Despite the sites I connect to and the variety of ftp programs I own, I always get connection problems, time-outs, and slow uploads and downloads. It gets very frustrating and slows down the process of working on the sites.

The only games we ever play are on pogo.com. We are also MS beta testers and are downloading files over 2gig in size. While the MS site gives us the highest transfer rate of any downloads, quite often I have to download more than once due to corrupt files.

Our computer to computer file sharing is our lowest priority as we tend to each keep copies of what we are working on and only transfer a few files back and forth each day. Although when finances allow, I would like to get a USB drive to share for back-up purposes.

So there it is, what I use the network and router for. I thought perhaps it may help in trying to figure out the best combination for my systems.

thank you,

betty

bettysue

04-15-06, 03:42 PM

I guess I must be the only one here that has an AMD based pc as opposed to Intel (or the only one to admit it..lol). ;)

While in my pursuit of a wireless router system, I came across another spec. that has me wondering if there is any advantage to.

Is there any benefit from the routers that have the 3 main standards, i.e. 802.11a, b, and g?

Thank You,

betty

Britten

04-15-06, 07:23 PM

you wanna get 802.11g

also... i have several computers running AMD processors... i havent had any problem with ANY router EVER becuase of the CPU of my computer. Now i have heard of issues with certain cards... but i have never experienced any.

bettysue

04-15-06, 07:30 PM

Thank you once again Britten :)

For you systems, have you noticed any particular brand or model that seems to work better than others?

Also (yes I've been reading again!) is there any advantage to having the computer to computer connection sep. from the shared internet connection?

In otherwords the internal wired connection going through a switch for computer to computer, and a router with wireless cards for internet only?

As usual, thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-16-06, 07:24 AM

No difference in mixing AMD and Intel systems....I've often various combos like that at home and at my office.

Benefit of mixing wireless technologies A/B/G/Pre-N? No, no benefit, unless for some reason you have a computer with an A wireless NIC. Pre-N/G/B all use the same spectrum....so it's backwards compatible. B/G work on Pre-N...B works on G also.

My vote would be to go with the latest..Pre-N/MIMO...based on my experience in setting wireless networks....the amount of Pre-N wireless networks I've done in the past year...it really is that much better than old G. Every single wireless network I've been installing since they hit the stores shelves has been Pre-N/MIMO...no reason to go back to old G. The increase in range and coverage really is far superior.

Lately..if I've setting up a small network that needs wireless...I'm using the wrt5gx4...yes I've had great luck with them. Prior to that model...I used their earlier SRX models...and had all good stuff with them also. I've also done a few wireless networks with the Belkin Pre-N units...had good luck with them. I do tend to lean towards Linksys/Cisco as a brand though.

However....if people demand the highest of speed, more features, stability of their network...especially in a business environment...I'll usually split the router and wireless...getting a business grade router...and sling a wireless access point or two off of it. Two separate devices. I'm running this at home right now...I have a Linksys RV082 as my main router...built in 8 port switch. Very high performance, high stability router...533 MHz processor, 32 megs of RAM...she's got power. I have a Linksys router running as an access point slung off if it.

I do a low of remote work, file transfers, file downloads, VPN sessions to clients, run a server with e-mail, etc..from home...so stability and speed is of concern to me.

Highest cost....you're going to spend more with this setup. Will it be a benefit for you over a single setup? Overkill? Pretty much impossible to answer...sometimes you just have to decide on what you'll go for, based on your budget 'n stuff...and go with it. But sometimes it doesn't hurt to shoot high in design.

This router also has a solid business grade managed switch built into it...a higher grade than the basic 4 port switch in more entry level routers. Again...it's meant to be a workhorse 24/7 under business loads.

Writeups comparison how brands of hardware work with each other? I've not seen one...I have 3x wireless NICs for my laptops...a Cisco B, a Linksys B, and a Belkin G. I use the Cisco only when doing Cisco wireless networks..because of their pain in the butt software, but the other two...I've found them very compatible with other brands of WAPs. I would just stay away from ones that focus on "turbo" technologies...get ones true to their wireless flavor...not proprietary ones. Or..one that matches your WAP.

bettysue

04-16-06, 01:38 PM

Wow YeOldeStonecat, what an excellent and informational post!

The details also address some of the questions and terms which I have tried to read and learn about and just get more confused. I still remember the days where one computer had to have 2 network cards to create a home network. Now there's wired, wireless WEP, WAP, access points, routers, switches, and the list goes on.

I even read Cnets Networking Guide:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7605_7-1023478-1.html?tag=dir#2

to learn what some of the different terms meant. I concentrated on the Home Office networks. That's where my question about a set-up of more than just a router and nics came about.

For a home office, they say you need a VPN firewall, Cable/DSL broadband router, Wireless adapter, and now the 2 confusing items:

Wireless access point Connects wireless adapters to your network
Power-line adapter Connects computers to your power-line network

I had thought that all you needed to connect the wireless adapters to the network was the wireless router. Like I do now only I used wired adapters on a wirelss router. So does this mean I have to buy even more equipment?

I have no clue what the Power-line adapter is, that's a new one to me.

I looked at the wireless access points on the compusa site, and to me they look like routers. What is the difference in an access point and a router? Is the lack of one why I could get the Linksys 54g to connect to the internet on both main machines, but could not get them to connect to each other?

Does a switch, i.e. Linksys Gigabit EG005W 5 Port Workgroup Switch, work like an access point except the switches are wired vs. wireless? I had thought by using a switch, I could use my wired connection to go computer to computer with their built in nics, and thus possibly having more stable and increased speed with the router being solely dedicated to the internet.

I can't believe all the confusion I've caused myself just by wanting a reliable and faster internet connection, while continuing to access the other systems as I always have.

So with this said, if I were to get a pre-N/Mimo router (torn between Linksys and Belkin), what would I need to go with it to have my 2 desktops and laptop be able to transfer files to each other, and to have a stable and hopefully faster internet connection on all 3 systems? This also taking into consideration at this time all 3 systems have built in wired nics. The desktop (with the gigabit nic) does not need to be wireless, my desktop and the laptop do need to be wireless.

Look at it this way, all this confusion has finally led me to the bottom line on what I need to accomplish the above :)

Thank you again for the great post!

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-16-06, 02:48 PM

I'll dig more into that CNET article later when I get time...gorgeous day outside...raking the yard and doing spring work on the boat to get her ready to launch. :D

Powerline adapters...basically a bridge that allows you to network computers over your existing powerlines/outlets in the house. No need to run network cables...can use your electrical lines for networking. Mixed results in the real world...usually works "OK". Often used to get networking down to the other end of a house..instead of trying to run long lengths of network cable.

VPN Firewall...this is mentioned in the "home office for telecommuters" section...say you're on the road and you need to access something at home...you can securely VPN to your home network and get access to it. Many business grade routers have this built in as a feature, such as the Linksys RV0 series I mentioned above. I use it often...VPN to my home network.

Wireless Access Points (WAPs)...this is basically a wireless version of a switch, or a hub. It does not do any routing....does not provide any firewall protection...it's just for connecting wireless computers to each other/and/or to an existing wired network.

Now lets step back a minute and look at "routers". A very basic definition of a router, is to connect one network, to another network. 5-10 years ago most people never heard of the term "router"..unless you worked in IT..since they were basically these big expensive devices used in large corporate networks...to tie together branchs of a big company, wide area networks, campus networks, etc etc. A device often with just 1x WAN port and 1x LAN port. You'd plug them into a hub or switch...

...but these days, since the explosion of broadband in the home (cable/DSL)...the term "router" has become practically a household word. Except...these units are really more like "gateway appliances"...they are usually the combination of several separate devices rolled into one little box.
*A router
*A built in 4 port (or more) switch
*Some have a built in wireless access point
*Some have built in VPN endpoint servers
*Some have built in cable modems or DSL modems (bridges)

So...if you have an existing router...and you wish to introduce wireless to your network...you generally either:
*replace your existing router with a new wireless router
or
*add a wireless access point to your existing network...keeping your existing router

If you wish to keep a network the same..you generally don't want to add a router to an existing router. "Technically" it can be done with some paperclip and bubblegum tricks.....but in theory, follow the rule of..if you have a router..add an access point.

However to throw a monkeywrench into that statement and confuse things further..you can purchase a wireless router..which supports being fully flipped over to access point mode. (such as Belkins and some Linksys models)

I'm just still concerned about your "quest for faster internet speeds"....afraid since your results are so irregular...no matter what path you take might lead in disappointment.

Back later tonight...gotta head over my moms house for Easter dinner...get there early so she doesn't overcook the lamb. ;)

bettysue

04-16-06, 04:37 PM

Lamb? :nope: Not on my list of foods I will eat..lol Have tried it cooked several ways and I just don't care for it. However you can't go by me as I'm a very fussy eater, which is unusual in itself for a fat girl ;)

Spring? I remember spring back when I lived in NH. I've been in FL for 16 years so the memories of seasons are fading. Here our seasons are Hot, Really Hot, Warm, and Hurricane Season.
----------------

Ok so if what I understand your latest excellent post, the simplest method to have the computers connect to each other and the internet I should just find a router that is also an access point?

So even if the router w/access point is wireless I can still connect both wired and wireless computers to each other and the internet?

When you say that "fully flipped over to access point mode", does that mean I can either be on the internet or transfer files to the other computers, but not both at the same time? I think it's the phrase "fully flipped over" that has me confused.

As far as the internet speed, yes I would hope with newer equipment it would be faster at least on my system which seems to be the slowest of the group.

Whichever changes I make, I need to make my system wireless or run those butt ugly wires all over my house. I'm trying to get everything transitioned prior to my probable surgery which is the main reason I need to be wireless.
Right now both desktops and the laptop are in the same room only a few feet from each other so the wired network works.

If it were a matter of just speeding up my connection a tad and the wireless was not an issue, I'd just get a cheap gigabit adapter for my system and keep the same 802.11b router for a while. However with the knowledge that my system will need to be moved to a different room if/when I have the surgery, I know that wireless is inevitable.

So since I need to change to wireless, I just want to get what works the best. With the expense of changing to wireless, I would expect some performance increase. This is why I've asked about the matching wireless network cards and if they would help the performance, and if I would need them just on my system, or on all the systems in the network.

I hope you enjoyed your Easter dinner with your family. You should have probably saved the raking for after dinner. That way you could go back for dessert again ;)

thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 01:45 PM

Ahh New Hampshire..love it up there. Had relatives in Laconia, Guilford, and Walpole.

"So even if the router w/access point is wireless I can still connect both wired and wireless computers to each other and the internet?"

Yes

"When you say that "fully flipped over to access point mode", does that mean I can either be on the internet or transfer files to the other computers, but not both at the same time? I think it's the phrase "fully flipped over" that has me confused."

No..I mean..you can by a wireless router, which is technically different from just a wireless access point. However...some wireless routers support running in a mode in which their routing is turned off..and they're running as just dumb access points.

If distance and speed is your concern...(getting that signal into your room and still being fast)...I'd without question focus on Pre-N/MIMO.

bettysue

04-17-06, 02:37 PM

dumb access points

Hey...I resemble that remark :D

Do you know if any of the major brands of Pre-N/Mimo have that feature and should be avoided because of that issue?

I also noticed that some of the wireless routers are MIMO alone and Pre-N alone. Do I want to try one that is both? Or if not both, which is more compatible to wired and wireless combinations?

I also just noticed a Netgear I hadn't noticed before that is "Double 108Mbps". It says something about because it's a,b, and g.

Hang in there big guy, the field is narrowing ;)

betty

BTW I lived most of my time in NH in Milford. However the first place I lived in NH after my dad got out of the army and left Kentucky (I was born there and left at age 2) was where he was from - Pittsburg, NH. Yep, the whole top of the NH map just before Canada. Moose, bears, deer, lakes, beautiful. Just nothing to do unless you hunt, snowmobile, or work in a lodge.

My poor mom is from Virginia, and as I grew up, became very familiar with the expression "that d*mn yankee father of yours!".

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 04:10 PM

=

Do you know if any of the major brands of Pre-N/Mimo have that feature and should be avoided because of that issue?

When I said "dumb access point"..I meant it was just a repeater/hub...contrary to "router".

I also noticed that some of the wireless routers are MIMO alone and Pre-N alone. Do I want to try one that is both? Or if not both, which is more compatible to wired and wireless combinations?

One and the same...current Pre-N units use MIMO technology to do it.

I also just noticed a Netgear I hadn't noticed before that is "Double 108Mbps". It says something about because it's a,b, and g.

I'd only purchase a router based on Airgos True MIMO chipset. Routers, like computers, are based on chipsets. You crack the cover off of a router, and you'll see a little system board in there. Just like Computers, with their Intel chipset, AMD based chipsets, Via, SiS, etc.......routers are similar..there are several big chipset players out there for routers, and each brand tends to favor some over others...several models of each brand will use certain chipsets.

Pre-N/MIMO, in Airgo's current 3rd generation, is topping at 240 megs! :nod: Real world throughput of over 115 megs....finally faster than wired ethernet!

Netgear has a couple of models based on the Airgo chipset..I'm not sure if on the current 3rd generation one though. They do have many of their models based on the Atheros wireless chipset..a wireless brand I'm personally not fond of.

bettysue

04-17-06, 04:24 PM

Thanks!! I finally got the term to look for, "Airgo" ;)

That Double 108 Netgear one says it is based on the Airgo technlogy, but doesn't mention MIMI or Pre-N in the description.

I just went to the Netgear site and was going to look at the description there, however got sidetracked by their front page announcing the first N draft based router:

http://www.netgear.com/promotions/2006/next.php

Supposedly provides speeds up to 300Mbps. It comes in 2 models, one is regular 10/100 and the other one is a gigabit edition.

However those AMD comments in reference to Netgear still leave me leary to try one of their routers.

thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 04:45 PM

I just went to the Netgear site and was going to look at the description there, however got sidetracked by their front page announcing the first N draft based router:

Yeah starting this month, over the next couple of months...we're going to see the next iteration of "N" wireless products. So far...they've been nicknamed "Pre-N".."Pre"..as in "before".

As you saw in the Netgear side..down towards the bottom...it mentioned that the first "draft" for N was approved just a few weeks ago....

It's only a "draft" though...nothing is cast in stone...as we still probably have at least a year until it's finalized and approved.

So Netgears starting a marketing term for this next generation of N product..calling it "N-ext". The next step after Pre-N. What Linksys will call theirs...not sure yet...their busy this week launching their new WRV200...I haven't skimmed my VAR literature on that one yet.

bettysue

04-17-06, 04:52 PM

Speaking of Linksys, do they use the Airgo technology in their GX4 router?

Also since (thanks to your enlightening posts) I am now mainly looking at the MIMO/Pre-N models, I know my system will need the matching card as I need to go wireless. Will the other desktop and laptop need the nics also to get the optimum speeds and connections to each other?

Also is there any advantage to routers which operate on both 2.4ghz (like my cordless phone) and 5ghz?.

(the good news is my posts are getting shorter ;) )

thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 05:38 PM

1) Yes...it's Airgos Gen3 chipset

2) Question for you first...Will all 3x of your computers be wireless? Or...with the new router, will any still be wired?

3) Advantage to 2.4 and 5? As far as I know, only if you run A type wireless clients. If you only run B/G/Pre-N clients....then you only need 2.4.

bettysue

04-17-06, 05:49 PM

Question for you first...Will all 3x of your computers be wireless? Or...with the new router, will any still be wired?

This is like the chicken and egg question :eek:

If I need to buy the matching wireless cards to make the network function properly, then yes all 3 will be wireless.

If the desktop with the gigabit nic doesn't need a matching card but the laptop does, then there will be 2 wireless and 1 wired.

If I don't need to purchase MIMO/Pre-N cards for the other 2 in order to function properly then it will be a case of one wireless and two wired. With the laptop eventually becoming wireless.

Thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 05:57 PM

K...remember that most home market broadband routers have a built in 4 port switch for wired computers....even wireless routers and access points have this. So you can plug in your wired towers...they will run on ethernet. And your wireless computers, such as laptops, or a tower/desktop with a wireless PCI or wireless USB network adapter...can also utilize the router or access point.

If Microsoft networking is setup properly....the PCs will functions as a network. Remember...the wireless access point, be it just a stand alone access point, or the wireless component of a router....just "bridges" the wireless, with the wired. So you laptop, in looking through Microsoft networking services for that "shared folder" on another computer on your network...it doesn't know, or care, that it's running across wireless. The network adapters, and the access point, take care of the wireless part. Windowsjust sees the TCP/IP, and/or other protocols if you're running them.

So to sum it up, if you have 2x big towers or desktops..plugged into your router using cat5 cable (ethernet), and you have 1x laptop that will run wireless....yes they will network to each other just fine, file/folder shares, printer shares, while at the same time accessing the internet just fine.

bettysue

04-17-06, 06:08 PM

So to sum it up, if you have 2x big towers or desktops..plugged into your router using cat5 cable (ethernet), and you have 1x laptop that will run wireless....yes they will network to each other just fine, file/folder shares, printer shares, while at the same time accessing the internet just fine.

Cool! It will actually be 1 wireless desktop and a wired laptop and desktop for now pending my (hopefully) last question about the matching network cards.

In several of the reviews and product specs I've read, they mention that in order to obtain the maximum speed, performance, etc. of the router especially in the faster MIMI and Pre-N class, you need to get the matching cards to go with the router.

I know when I tried the Linksys 54g, I bought the wirelss usb card for my system and let the others remain on their wired connections. We were able to connect to the internet (although my speed was slower), yet no matter what we tried we could not connect the computers together. I was the only one that would show up in Network Neighborhood. When I tried to use the Windows set up a wireless network, it gave me an error message that another software application was in use (Linksys I assume) so I couldn't use the Windows app.

Is this the need to purchase the matching cards just sales hype or does it bare some truth?

thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-17-06, 06:25 PM

Is this the need to purchase the matching cards just sales hype or does it bare some truth?

Well...partially.

For type A wireless....you need a type A card, to go with your type A router or access point. A type A card will not work with a B/G/~N router/access point...

But since we're talking the year 2006 here...I'll assume type A wireless isn't even being considered....since it's old...and never really caught on.

So that leaves us with the popular 2.4 frequency...consisting of old B, about to become old G, and the upcoming new star...Pre-N...and the new iterations you've seen..such as N-ext. (anything to do with "N" also being known as MIMO) Now..remember "backwards compatible" here. While you need matching Pre-N cards to get the full speed benefits of Pre-N routers....you can still use older G cards...and even the really old B cards..with Pre-N routers. You just don't connect at full Pre-N capable speed..you only connect as fast as those cards allow (a chain is only as strong as its weakest link) So if you use a G card to connect to a Pre-N router..you are limited to up to 54 megs. If you use a B card to connect to a Pre-N router...you can only connect at up to 11 megs. They would all still get the big increase in range though.

Same with those other more specialized speed modes. Prior to Pre-N/MIMO, manufacturers came out with their own "super high speed" setups, such as "turbo", or "double speed", or "speed booster"...basically they did their own method of doubling the G 54..to come up with a 108 meg wireless connection. To utilize these at their max speeds, similar to the Pre-N/MIMO, you needed a matching card.

However, all of the above are only related to speed, and performance. They have nothing to do with networking, and shares, access to resources. Setting up Windows Networking should have nothing to do with what brand/type of wired/wireless cards you have.

BTW, I'm a fan of using the native Windows XP wireless zero config utility..which got quite solid and robust with service pack 2 for XP. Everyone has their own opinion on this, some say it sucks..they prefer to use the utility that comes with the drivers of their brand network card. //shrugs I use what's best for me, and what keeps my clients from calling me all the time with various little problems.

But my all means..regardless of what mixture of hardware you have, brands, etc...Windows networking should still function properly.

If you were to ask me to come setup a wireless network in your house now..the wrt54gx4 is what I'd arrive with. Matter of fact I'm setting up another one for a client end of this week..and that's what I'm using, for his IBM Thinkpad with Centrino G wireless chipset built into it.

bettysue

04-19-06, 06:18 PM

BTW, I'm a fan of using the native Windows XP wireless zero config utility..which got quite solid and robust with service pack 2 for XP.

How do you prevent the router drivers from installing their software that it uses instead of the Window wireless services? On the 54g everthing just auto installed along with the drivers.

Or if it does auto install, how do you turn it off to allow windows wireless to take over?

thank you,

betty

YeOldeStonecat

04-19-06, 07:52 PM

On the install process...if you insert the CD..most of the time it'll install everything from the setup program. But if you don't run the CD...put the card in....Windows PnP will detect new hardware...prompt to search for drivers...have the CD in at that point...(or download the latest drivers from the website)...it usually just loads the bare drivers that way.

Even if the utility gets installed...there's usually a checkmark in it to override the Windows utility or not.

bettysue

04-24-06, 02:13 AM

Speaking of Airgo Technology and MIMO.....

I was researching a router I hadn't heard of, and in my search I came across this site which is owned by Airgo.

http://www.truemimo.com

It is also linked from their main site: http://www.airgowireless.com/

What I found for good information is that they have a "What Wi-Fi is Best for Me" section on the main page. It has drop down choices that users select to answer what they need/are looking for in a network.

Based on your answers it tells you which standard of router you need. Mine came out Premium. So then I went to the "Where to Buy" section and they list routers (which use the Airgo Technology) by grades, i.e. Premium True Mimo, Midrange True Mimo, etc.

http://www.truemimo.com/buy/

There is also a section on which grade does what and is good for.

There are only 2 routers currently listed in the Premium section, the Linksys with SRX400 (which you suggested to me) and the Netgear Rangemax 240.

The whole site is an interesting read and explains all about Mimo technology which comes in handy for users like me who aren't up on the newest technologies.

Just thought it was worth a mention.

Betty