Izzo
10-10-05, 10:21 AM
and Linus Torvalds for creating this awful OS
that is all
that is all
View Full Version : I curse Linux
YARDofSTUF
10-10-05, 01:07 PM
SuSe
CableDude
10-10-05, 05:35 PM
Knoppix
Izzo
10-10-05, 05:42 PM
Knoppix
I have knoppix and Red Hat ... this linux class is kicking my arse
who the hell needs to search for patterns within a file anyway ... i mean c'mon ... it's not practical at all ...and if it were up to me the company i work for would never see a linux box ....EVAR :irate:
I have knoppix and Red Hat ... this linux class is kicking my arse
who the hell needs to search for patterns within a file anyway ... i mean c'mon ... it's not practical at all ...and if it were up to me the company i work for would never see a linux box ....EVAR :irate:
TonyT
10-10-05, 06:04 PM
whine whine whine!
Find the terminolgy you have misunderstood and clarify it!
All kidding aside, that's all that is needed to understand anything better. Locate the misunderstood words and clear them up and soone enough it will all begin to make sense.
Find the terminolgy you have misunderstood and clarify it!
All kidding aside, that's all that is needed to understand anything better. Locate the misunderstood words and clear them up and soone enough it will all begin to make sense.
Izzo
10-10-05, 06:07 PM
whine whine whine!
Find the terminolgy you have misunderstood and clarify it!
All kidding aside, that's all that is needed to understand anything better. Locate the misunderstood words and clear them up and soone enough it will all begin to make sense.
I'm convinced it is fighting against me ...i'm in class now and my text book does a very poor job of explaining things ....problem is ..the program i am in goes straight to linux admin 1 ...i have had up to this point absolutley -0- command line and/or linux experience ... i am obviously in waaay over my head ...
Find the terminolgy you have misunderstood and clarify it!
All kidding aside, that's all that is needed to understand anything better. Locate the misunderstood words and clear them up and soone enough it will all begin to make sense.
I'm convinced it is fighting against me ...i'm in class now and my text book does a very poor job of explaining things ....problem is ..the program i am in goes straight to linux admin 1 ...i have had up to this point absolutley -0- command line and/or linux experience ... i am obviously in waaay over my head ...
cyberskye
10-10-05, 06:38 PM
who the hell needs to search for patterns within a file anyway ... i mean c'mon ... it's not practical at all ...and if it were up to me the company i work for would never see a linux box ....EVAR :irate:
Anyone who would like to automate anything text-based. I prefer to have a report generated based on log files rather than going through it manually, line-by-line. Very useful in modifying config files on several different machines.
Lotsa reasons.
*nix is not at all beginner friendly. It is VERY user friendly. You'll wake up one day and amaze yourself with what you can do. Just takes time to put it all together.
Anyone who would like to automate anything text-based. I prefer to have a report generated based on log files rather than going through it manually, line-by-line. Very useful in modifying config files on several different machines.
Lotsa reasons.
*nix is not at all beginner friendly. It is VERY user friendly. You'll wake up one day and amaze yourself with what you can do. Just takes time to put it all together.
Izzo
10-10-05, 06:56 PM
Anyone who would like to automate anything text-based. I prefer to have a report generated based on log files rather than going through it manually, line-by-line. Very useful in modifying config files on several different machines.
Lotsa reasons.
*nix is not at all beginner friendly. It is VERY user friendly. You'll wake up one day and amaze yourself with what you can do. Just takes time to put it all together.
i beg to differ...i would argue it is neither ....I am so frustrated it isn't even funny ...why wouldn't you just use a GUI ??
Lotsa reasons.
*nix is not at all beginner friendly. It is VERY user friendly. You'll wake up one day and amaze yourself with what you can do. Just takes time to put it all together.
i beg to differ...i would argue it is neither ....I am so frustrated it isn't even funny ...why wouldn't you just use a GUI ??
Paft
10-10-05, 07:21 PM
Because a GUI limits you, plain and simple. There are things you can do with a command line that GUIs just can't do. Period.
Try this in a GUI:
cat > myfile << perl - e s/[A-Z]/[a-z]/g && grep november myfile
A line substution dumped out to a file (Yes, I know I screwed this up, but not on a *nix box to see what I did wrong), and then you grep the file to find all instances of november. Great for, for an example, a logfile parser script.
Try this in a GUI:
cat > myfile << perl - e s/[A-Z]/[a-z]/g && grep november myfile
A line substution dumped out to a file (Yes, I know I screwed this up, but not on a *nix box to see what I did wrong), and then you grep the file to find all instances of november. Great for, for an example, a logfile parser script.
Izzo
10-10-05, 07:32 PM
Because a GUI limits you, plain and simple. There are things you can do with a command line that GUIs just can't do. Period.
Try this in a GUI:
cat > myfile << perl - e s/[A-Z]/[a-z]/g && grep november myfile
A line substution dumped out to a file (Yes, I know I screwed this up, but not on a *nix box to see what I did wrong), and then you grep the file to find all instances of november. Great for, for an example, a logfile parser script.
I believe you guys ... i'm sorry ....this is beyond frustrating ... i'm watching my GPA drop like a rock right in front of my eyes
i'm seriously considering just dropping the class altogether as it appears i am doomed to fail ...
Try this in a GUI:
cat > myfile << perl - e s/[A-Z]/[a-z]/g && grep november myfile
A line substution dumped out to a file (Yes, I know I screwed this up, but not on a *nix box to see what I did wrong), and then you grep the file to find all instances of november. Great for, for an example, a logfile parser script.
I believe you guys ... i'm sorry ....this is beyond frustrating ... i'm watching my GPA drop like a rock right in front of my eyes
i'm seriously considering just dropping the class altogether as it appears i am doomed to fail ...
cyberskye
10-10-05, 07:32 PM
i beg to differ...i would argue it is neither ....I am so frustrated it isn't even funny ...why wouldn't you just use a GUI ??
I thought you were describing yourself as a beginner. If you are then you wouldn't know if it's user friendly or not.
Paft's example is a good one - if you know what you want to do a GUI get's in your way. Back when I was in our professional services group, I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying out how to do something in the windows gui. I knew what I wanted to do - just couldn't figure out what to click to get there.
For an end user/desktop, I can see the draw to windows. If you want to be a professional, you should be comfortable learning how things work - not what to click next.
Skye
I thought you were describing yourself as a beginner. If you are then you wouldn't know if it's user friendly or not.
Paft's example is a good one - if you know what you want to do a GUI get's in your way. Back when I was in our professional services group, I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying out how to do something in the windows gui. I knew what I wanted to do - just couldn't figure out what to click to get there.
For an end user/desktop, I can see the draw to windows. If you want to be a professional, you should be comfortable learning how things work - not what to click next.
Skye
Izzo
10-10-05, 07:33 PM
I thought you were describing yourself as a beginner. If you aren't then you wouldn't know if it's user friendly or not.
Paft's example is a good one - if you know what you want to do a GUI get's in your way. Back when I was in our professional services group, I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying out how to do something in the windows gui. I knew what I wanted to do - just couldn't figure out what to click to get there.
For an end user/desktop, I can see the draw to windows. If you want to be a professional, you should be comfortable learning how things work - not what to click next.
Skye
yeah ..see my above post .. i apologize ...and yes i am ..for lack of a better term... (won't use noob)... an extreme beginner ....
Paft's example is a good one - if you know what you want to do a GUI get's in your way. Back when I was in our professional services group, I can't tell you how many hours I wasted trying out how to do something in the windows gui. I knew what I wanted to do - just couldn't figure out what to click to get there.
For an end user/desktop, I can see the draw to windows. If you want to be a professional, you should be comfortable learning how things work - not what to click next.
Skye
yeah ..see my above post .. i apologize ...and yes i am ..for lack of a better term... (won't use noob)... an extreme beginner ....
CableDude
10-10-05, 07:39 PM
I dunno man. I just run it off the CD and go from there. Like launching firefox and stuff. :D;)
Izzo
10-10-05, 07:53 PM
can anyone recommend a dumbed down help guide? .. in all honesty i don't have hours to wade through dozens of sites trying to determine which would be best
and cable i have knoppix ... used it a bit..until well i got lost in it ...i just threw it in with the rest of the software i don't use any more...lol
...this course is specifically for red hat
and cable i have knoppix ... used it a bit..until well i got lost in it ...i just threw it in with the rest of the software i don't use any more...lol
...this course is specifically for red hat
cyberskye
10-10-05, 07:54 PM
Your painpoint is REGEX (regular expressions) not *nix. *nix just has (natively) a lot of really powerful tools for manipulating text files. All programming languages support regex so you just need to learn it...
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
Izzo
10-10-05, 08:08 PM
Your painpoint is REGEX (regular expressions) not *nix. *nix just has (natively) a lot of really powerful tools for manipulating text files. All programming languages support regex so you just need to learn it...
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
Thanks..i'll look into it...i truly appreciate you and Paft's time
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
Thanks..i'll look into it...i truly appreciate you and Paft's time
Izzo
10-10-05, 08:28 PM
Your painpoint is REGEX (regular expressions) not *nix. *nix just has (natively) a lot of really powerful tools for manipulating text files. All programming languages support regex so you just need to learn it...
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
why*nix and not linux ?
BTW - on a *nix box I use a gui too - unless it's on the internet; then I remove X. Makes it easier to work with several terms at once :p
BTBTW - everyone is a newb when they try something new. There's nothing wrong with being a newb. Now staying a newb...;)
EDIT: I really like "Linux Administration Handbook", ISBN 0-13-008466-2 has a lot of solid concepts that apply to adminstration of other OSs as well.
Skye
why*nix and not linux ?
TonyT
10-10-05, 08:59 PM
why*nix and not linux ?
*nix = unix based or unix type operating systems = unix = linux = bsd etc etc.
I understand the frustration. When I first started with linux, I fooled with live cds. Then I tried a few different hard drive installs and even dual booted for a while. I am so used to windows it was real difficult for me. I came into computers at win98 and missed out on dos, so I had a steep learning curve w/ linux.
of all the linux distros I tried, I kept returning to Debian, which is what most all live cds are built upon and which many major purchased linux distros are built on too. I am now at a point where I can get Debian installed with www server, php, mysql & all my favorite linux apps and the x windows installed in about an hour. All the other linux installs were more complex and irritating.
But to install Debian, I had to learn specific commands in order to accomplish what I wanted to do. And other command to configure it the way I wanted, esp w/out unneeded crap.
So...my point is this: yes, learning command line stuff w/out an understanding what the need for it is makes it almost impossible to learn, but if you have an idea of why & how this stuff applies to computing and you understand of what use it will be, then you can get jusdement along with knowledge. Otherwise you just end up with knowledge that seems to have no real value to you, just like knowing the stuff in Guiness record book has no real application in life.
If your instructor and/or textbook do not communicate why you need to learn something and of what use it could be for you, then that's poor education. Yes, it is partly your responsibility to figure out how you will need to use this data you learn, but sometimes giving a few hints about it is worthwhile.
Anyway, here's a few refererences that may assist you:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/system-administrator/index.html#contents
http://www.ss64.com/bash/
gui versus command line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_line
http://linux.about.com/cs/softofficeutility/a/gui_cli.htm
*nix = unix based or unix type operating systems = unix = linux = bsd etc etc.
I understand the frustration. When I first started with linux, I fooled with live cds. Then I tried a few different hard drive installs and even dual booted for a while. I am so used to windows it was real difficult for me. I came into computers at win98 and missed out on dos, so I had a steep learning curve w/ linux.
of all the linux distros I tried, I kept returning to Debian, which is what most all live cds are built upon and which many major purchased linux distros are built on too. I am now at a point where I can get Debian installed with www server, php, mysql & all my favorite linux apps and the x windows installed in about an hour. All the other linux installs were more complex and irritating.
But to install Debian, I had to learn specific commands in order to accomplish what I wanted to do. And other command to configure it the way I wanted, esp w/out unneeded crap.
So...my point is this: yes, learning command line stuff w/out an understanding what the need for it is makes it almost impossible to learn, but if you have an idea of why & how this stuff applies to computing and you understand of what use it will be, then you can get jusdement along with knowledge. Otherwise you just end up with knowledge that seems to have no real value to you, just like knowing the stuff in Guiness record book has no real application in life.
If your instructor and/or textbook do not communicate why you need to learn something and of what use it could be for you, then that's poor education. Yes, it is partly your responsibility to figure out how you will need to use this data you learn, but sometimes giving a few hints about it is worthwhile.
Anyway, here's a few refererences that may assist you:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/system-administrator/index.html#contents
http://www.ss64.com/bash/
gui versus command line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_line
http://linux.about.com/cs/softofficeutility/a/gui_cli.htm
cyberskye
10-11-05, 09:57 AM
why*nix and not linux ?
As Tony said, the difference is minimal. Once you know one, you can figure the rest out. BASH is BASH on any system. Things like threading libraries and such vary between the different *nix flavors, but unless you are writing your own server you don;t need to worry about the plumbing.
One thing I might suggest - if the class focuses on RH, then stick with RH. The management tools can vary from distro to distro, so using Debian aptget when the class uses rpm could be confusing.
As Tony said, the difference is minimal. Once you know one, you can figure the rest out. BASH is BASH on any system. Things like threading libraries and such vary between the different *nix flavors, but unless you are writing your own server you don;t need to worry about the plumbing.
One thing I might suggest - if the class focuses on RH, then stick with RH. The management tools can vary from distro to distro, so using Debian aptget when the class uses rpm could be confusing.
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