Yeah, then how did we ever let those damn negroes marry our white women?
Freedom to choose fellas. Why you wouldn't support a fellow American in their right to choose....especially in an activity which you don't take part in is beyond comprehension....
How does gay marriage threaten you and your rights?
Oh...that's right...it doesn't.
So let's stop the sickle cell from infecting our white heritage and ban inter-racial marriage.....sound like a plan?
I didn't think so.
Word up UOD.. you da man..
-Preet
Tawcan
11-04-04, 02:39 AM
What if....
Since the beginning it had been homosexual marriages that kept mankind going and now people want this 'heterasexual' marriage? I guess people would oppose that too?
It's comes down to what we've been taught for thousands of years. Homosexual = bad is ironed in our brains somewhere and not until recently this is starting to change...
Leatherneck
11-04-04, 07:29 AM
What if....
Since the beginning it had been homosexual marriages that kept mankind going and now people want this 'heterasexual' marriage? I guess people would oppose that too?
It's comes down to what we've been taught for thousands of years. Homosexual = bad is ironed in our brains somewhere and not until recently this is starting to change...
Did you skip on the day that reproduction was taught? What purpose does that supposition serve?
Roody
11-04-04, 07:35 AM
What if....
Since the beginning it had been homosexual marriages that kept mankind going and now people want this 'heterasexual' marriage? I guess people would oppose that too?
It's comes down to what we've been taught for thousands of years. Homosexual = bad is ironed in our brains somewhere and not until recently this is starting to change...
hmmm and how exactly can homosexuals create human life?
JawZ
11-04-04, 07:59 AM
BigMo, I commend you man..........I don't even bother in these kinda threads anymore, not worth the effort in posting drawn out posts. More power to ya buddy!!
that's because the more you post, there is more to refute. You provide us with every piece of ammunition we need. Look at your above post Prey.....if you don't bother with these type of threads anymore....then why are you here in this one??????????????
:rotfl:
What's even more hilarious....we don't even start these threads.....YOU do!!!!!! :rotfl:
Prey521
11-04-04, 08:13 AM
that's because the more you post, there is more to refute. You provide us with every piece of ammunition we need. Look at your above post Prey.....if you don't bother with these type of threads anymore....then why are you here in this one??????????????
:rotfl:
What's even more hilarious....we don't even start these threads.....YOU do!!!!!! :rotfl:
I didn't say that I wouldn't post in them, I just said that I will not argue about what I believe in. I'm set in my beliefs, and most people are in theirs, so I don't even try and waste my time anymore, cuz I'm not out to convince anyone to believe about what I believe in. You guys know how I feel about all these controversial issues, so I try and not repeat myself. Also, not a single word that anyone says in here will ever refute what's in the word of God, no matter how much you, or anyone else wants to believe that.
Tawcan
11-04-04, 08:58 AM
hmmm and how exactly can homosexuals create human life?
:p
Suppose they can?
*shrug* I'm just trying to give a different point of view. :p
JawZ
11-04-04, 11:23 AM
I didn't say that I wouldn't post in them, I just said that I will not argue about what I believe in. I'm set in my beliefs, and most people are in theirs, so I don't even try and waste my time anymore, cuz I'm not out to convince anyone to believe about what I believe in. You guys know how I feel about all these controversial issues, so I try and not repeat myself. Also, not a single word that anyone says in here will ever refute what's in the word of God, no matter how much you, or anyone else wants to believe that.
But that is the issue Prey. We're not debating the word of God, we're debating the Constitutionality of it all. You're a smart fella....the word of God has nothing to do with the Constitution. You can't use the word of God to infringe upon the Constitutionally protected freedoms of AMERICANS!!!! Could you imagine the chaos if we allowed any old joe schmo with a belief system to change the Constitution at their will????
I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself....I have absolutely no problem with opposition to homosexuality on a personal level and I have no problem with opposition to homosexuality on an institutional level like the church. But what we can't allow is for the Constitution to be used as a tool to enforce your belief system.
this is why I'm becoming less thrilled with the Republican party. The Republicans have lost touch with the essence of conservatism. Conservatism is about maintaining the status quo. If it aint broke...don't fix it. Well, the Constitution aint broke and the goal of REAL conservatism is to preserve the Constitution as it is. I think that you along with many other young conservatives have strayed from that premise. REAL conservatives seek to keep government out of our lives while liberals seek to use government to solve social problems. In America, the balance between these two differing ideologies is maintained through compromise. We conservatives should say no to government intervention as it relates to our personal lives and we should only compromise when the liberals prove to us that the only solution to a social problem is through government intervention. Otherwise, let the people solve thier own problems. As much as I am a conservative, I find TREMENDOUS value in the ideals of the liberals because it gives us balance within our democratic form of government. We need liberal ideas...we need to embrace liberal ideals....and then we need to compromise in a way which satisfies both sides while keeping government intervention to a bare minimum. The more government intervention we invite into our homes, the less freedom and the less choices we have.
Roody
11-04-04, 11:41 AM
hmmm and how exactly can homosexuals create human life?
:p
Suppose they can?
*shrug* I'm just trying to give a different point of view. :p
Yeah I know..I just couldn't imagine the scenario which is why I had to ask. :D
64bit
11-04-04, 11:46 AM
I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself....I have absolutely no problem with opposition to homosexuality on a personal level and I have no problem with opposition to homosexuality on an institutional level like the church. But what we can't allow is for the Constitution to be used as a tool to enforce your belief system.
amen!
tr87526
11-04-04, 12:14 PM
I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself....I have absolutely no problem with opposition to homosexuality on a personal level and I have no problem with opposition to homosexuality on an institutional level like the church. But what we can't allow is for the Constitution to be used as a tool to enforce your belief system.
UOD, I fully understand your position and your point. But most things can be "justified" including bad things.
I have tried to give reasons as to why its bad. I am sure there are things that you are 100% convinced that are bad and no one can sway your viewpoint, same sex marriage isn't one of them. But wrong is wrong. It compromises the relationship between man and woman... our foundation.
If you have probably been in situations(kids, friends, work) where you gave and inch and then hell breaks loose.
It will be just one more step in the wrong direction. For too long the minority have gotten their way. It has to stop. Wrong is wrong.
As for government, history shows a clear record on this.
When there is too much government, the people scream out, changes are made and we start to control our own lives. But we screw up. Then we scream that government isn't doing enough. It is a cycle that pretty much repeats itself every 15 years.
I think we do agree on something - the Constitution aint broke and the goal of REAL conservatism is to preserve the Constitution as it is
The Constitution works and never should be considered a "living document"
I think we should turn our attention to who is on the Supreme Court. Any judge the thinks the Constitution can be rewritten, should be impeached but that is for a later debate :)
64bit
11-04-04, 12:47 PM
The Constitution works and never should be considered a "living document"
I think we should turn our attention to who is on the Supreme Court. Any judge the thinks the Constitution can be rewritten, should be impeached but that is for a later debate :)
But that is exactly what President Bush wants to do. Amend the Constitution to forbid gays getting married. He wants to write his religous beliefs right into the document that tells us what our basic rights as americans are. I didn't like the fact that Issue #1 here in Ohio failed, but I accept it as what the citizens of Ohio wanted by a majority.....this time around. IMO it would be a sad day in this countries history if right there in The Constitution it says everyone has the right to get married and all the benifits that comes with, EXCEPT these people over here that we just don't like very much. Whats next is my question.
downhill
11-04-04, 03:32 PM
But that is the issue Prey. We're not debating the word of God, we're debating the Constitutionality of it all. You're a smart fella....the word of God has nothing to do with the Constitution. You can't use the word of God to infringe upon the Constitutionally protected freedoms of AMERICANS!!!! Could you imagine the chaos if we allowed any old joe schmo with a belief system to change the Constitution at their will????
I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself....I have absolutely no problem with opposition to homosexuality on a personal level and I have no problem with opposition to homosexuality on an institutional level like the church. But what we can't allow is for the Constitution to be used as a tool to enforce your belief system.
this is why I'm becoming less thrilled with the Republican party. The Republicans have lost touch with the essence of conservatism. Conservatism is about maintaining the status quo. If it aint broke...don't fix it. Well, the Constitution aint broke and the goal of REAL conservatism is to preserve the Constitution as it is. I think that you along with many other young conservatives have strayed from that premise. REAL conservatives seek to keep government out of our lives while liberals seek to use government to solve social problems. In America, the balance between these two differing ideologies is maintained through compromise. We conservatives should say no to government intervention as it relates to our personal lives and we should only compromise when the liberals prove to us that the only solution to a social problem is through government intervention. Otherwise, let the people solve thier own problems. As much as I am a conservative, I find TREMENDOUS value in the ideals of the liberals because it gives us balance within our democratic form of government. We need liberal ideas...we need to embrace liberal ideals....and then we need to compromise in a way which satisfies both sides while keeping government intervention to a bare minimum. The more government intervention we invite into our homes, the less freedom and the less choices we have.
UOD...this is one of the finest posts I've yet to read on SG....My hats off to you, sir.
*Must spread the love around before giving it to UOD again.*
Qwijib0
11-04-04, 03:45 PM
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to UOD again."
Broadsword
11-04-04, 03:53 PM
I dont...
:thumb:
ub3r_n00b
11-04-04, 09:50 PM
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to UOD again."
UOD for president.
No offence prey but I thought that you were basically calling yourself ignorant in your post.
-Preet
Prey521
11-04-04, 10:03 PM
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to UOD again."
UOD for president.
No offence prey but I thought that you were basically calling yourself ignorant in your post.
-Preet
LOL, that's OK, I've been called worse....you see it your way, I see it mine, great to have free will HUH! ;) :D
Jim
11-04-04, 10:06 PM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to UOD again.
nepenthe
11-04-04, 10:43 PM
hmmm and how exactly can homosexuals create human life?
:p
Suppose they can?
*shrug* I'm just trying to give a different point of view. :p
Lesbian couples can jog to the local sperm bank.
Kidding aside, there are those who fight their inner feeling to marry and bear children. Only later, to divorce and live out their lives as homosexual (the governor of NJ as an example).
De Plano
11-04-04, 10:46 PM
exactly
this Agenda that being gay is 'cool', and 'hip' is sickening IMO
its being pushed in all aspects of the media
How much girl on girl porn do you have?
Not very consistant on the subject of homosexuality and it's being "evil" and being pushed by the media when your seeking out the images. How sickening can you really find it when you are a consumer of it yourself?
UOD said it better than I would for the rest.
brembo
11-04-04, 10:49 PM
Says who? A Christian God. Now, that is alot like forcing religion on folks. Not something the gov't is tasked to do. Even the bible says stay outta the government.
UOD said it already. Marriage is the institution of religion. So if you wanna keep gays from gettin hitched, THEN DON'T PERFORM THE CERIMONY. Thats not a ban, it's a preacher/minister/rabbi/monk refusing to allow the practice or perfom the rites. Simple now isn't it?
One problem here tho. The whole marriage licence thing. That tosses a monkey wrench in the works some. Still you CAN be married in the eyes of yer God in a church and not have a licence, it's just that the state won't recognize the union.
I don't know if the gays are fighting for state-level recognition of the union or more of a religious stance. If it's state "rights" as it were they are lookin for...so be it. All the state sees is a tax form filed as joint and a few laws regarding inheritance and such. The law should read something like "two consenting adults" or the like. Heck, insurance comapnies might like the idea, not like maternity insurance will be needed(artifical insemination aside).
HEY read this. Dangit. *grumbles*
De Plano
11-04-04, 10:53 PM
and Brembo said it pretty good also.. ;) :D
ub3r_n00b
11-04-04, 10:55 PM
LOL, that's OK, I've been called worse....you see it your way, I see it mine, great to have free will HUH! ;) :D
Word man, totally. At least we can get along having different opinions.
-Preet
jayyy
11-04-04, 10:56 PM
I'm not gay and not interested in gay marriage one way or the other...
But it just strikes me as kind of a dumb thing to give a **** about either way. Just my 2 cents.
Whether you're liberal or conservative with everything going on in the world right now, its amazing that over 20% needed "moral issues" in order to get worked up enough to go out and vote.
War in the middle east and more coming, terrorists planning a strike that will make 9/11 look like a prelude, greatest defecit in history, worst job record for a president since the great depression, civil liberties under attack, corporations getting tax breaks for shipping white-collar tech jobs to india...
The pressing issue of 2004 that rove uses to get his man back in another term- WHAT OH WHAT IS TO BE DONE ABOUT GAY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PLAY DRESS-UP AS IF THEY'RE A NORMAL COUPLE??!?!? :rolleyes:
nepenthe
11-04-04, 10:56 PM
LOL, that's OK, I've been called worse....you see it your way, I see it mine, great to have free will HUH! ;) :D
Free will, bah! You're married now, Porfirio.
david
nepenthe
11-04-04, 10:58 PM
The pressing issue of 2004 that rove uses to get his man back in another term- WHAT OH WHAT IS TO BE DONE ABOUT GAY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PLAY DRESS-UP AS IF THEY'RE A NORMAL COUPLE??!?!? :rolleyes:
Torsten posted a great cartoon a while back in a similar vein.
jayyy
11-04-04, 11:02 PM
I miss Torsten. :(
JawZ
11-04-04, 11:31 PM
I have tried to give reasons as to why its bad. I am sure there are things that you are 100% convinced that are bad and no one can sway your viewpoint, same sex marriage isn't one of them. But wrong is wrong. It compromises the relationship between man and woman... our foundation.
I'm sure that it is wrong according to your belief system, and I can't argue that. I won't argue that.
But gay marriage does not compromise the Constitutional relationship between citizen and government....which is the foundation of our freedom as Americans.
If we do ban gay marriage through Constitutional provision, then the citizens have lost a basic right of freedom, the freedom to choose, while the government is granted a power that should NOT belong to them...the power to coerce and stifle free poeple.
The Constitution protects our inalienable rights while LIMITING the powers of government. Again, if we invite government into our homes, we are destroying the basic foundation of freedom which this country was built upon.
;)
tr87526
11-05-04, 01:46 AM
I'm sure that it is wrong according to your belief system, and I can't argue that. I won't argue that.
But gay marriage does not compromise the Constitutional relationship between citizen and government....which is the foundation of our freedom as Americans.
I'm not sure we disagree here. I don't want any laws created to prevent same sex marriage.
I want us, as humans to say "hey, this is not right, its not normal or the way its suppose to be, therefore we will not support it". Case closed, next issue.
The majority feels this way but because of Political correctness, the trend, not wanting to step on toes, we cave in.
Were do we draw the line and say enough is enough. We can not stand united if everyone has it thier way.
This country is in chaos because we have lost our way. Without rules there is chaos.
Wrong is still wrong. This is an "inch" we can not afford to give. I feel strongly that it would have a bad impact in the long run.
We won't ever agree but I have enjoyed the discussion.
De Plano
11-05-04, 02:05 AM
Outlaw divorce, swearing, liquor, secular music, dancing, buffonry and all else that is a bad influence while we're at it. I mean that is what the point is right, to protect the family from bad influence. Not very far from the Taliban in ideals
SRF01
11-05-04, 02:50 AM
Wrong is still wrong.
So who is to say what is right and what is wrong? You?
lonewolfz28
11-05-04, 03:10 AM
So who is to say what is right and what is wrong? You?
Not you, at least not in the US.
It strikes me funny that UOD is putting up such a stiff fight for gay marriage since, as US military, it's not an option. :confused:
He's just playing devils advocate again I guess. :thumb:
rightwinger
11-05-04, 03:40 AM
Yeah, then how did we ever let those damn negroes marry our white women?
Freedom to choose fellas. Why you wouldn't support a fellow American in their right to choose....especially in an activity which you don't take part in is beyond comprehension....
How does gay marriage threaten you and your rights?
Oh...that's right...it doesn't.
So let's stop the sickle cell from infecting our white heritage and ban inter-racial marriage.....sound like a plan?
I didn't think so.
Although I do not particularly agree with interracial marriages, it is still between a man and a woman, which is how God intended it to be. "Marriages" and I use that term very loosely, between two people of the same sex is against everything the Bible teaches and is morally corrupt. It runs counter to all the values upon which our founding fathers held close when they started this country. :nope:
Homosexuality is morally corrupt, plain and simple, no shades of gray, check please. I do not believe in discriminating on a single person because of it but I am damn sure against the "union" of two of them. :mad:
De Plano
11-05-04, 04:21 AM
That is a personal opinion. Like I said what is next swearing, drinking, and dirty dancing?
So many of you want a Christian Taliban in the U.S. and say your patriotic. Freedom folks freedom, oh thats right this is the U.S., not a country that protects peoples rights.
Christian fundamentalist laws for a country that is supposed to have a seperation of church and state. Sounds like folks do not like what our country was founded on.
What does it matter if there is a union between two of them, they'll be busier with each other and tempting you less.
De Plano
11-05-04, 04:27 AM
Not you, at least not in the US.
It strikes me funny that UOD is putting up such a stiff fight for gay marriage since, as US military, it's not an option. :confused:
He's just playing devils advocate again I guess. :thumb:
I guess he is trying to explain to folks the concept of seperation of church and state and the protection of the rights of Americans. If that is the devils advocate to you, fine
lonewolfz28
11-05-04, 04:31 AM
I guess he is trying to explain to folks the concept of seperation of church and state and the protection of the rights of Americans. If that is the devils advocate to you, fine
I'll wait for his explanation, thanks. :thumb:
JawZ
11-05-04, 02:36 PM
Not you, at least not in the US.
It strikes me funny that UOD is putting up such a stiff fight for gay marriage since, as US military, it's not an option. :confused:
He's just playing devils advocate again I guess. :thumb:
So because I don't want to change the Constitution to appease one belief system, you think I'm for gay marriage????
I'm not gay. I don't plan on becoming gay. I don't plan on marrying a gay person. (not to mention my wife is ALL hawt;))I don't give a rats ass what other people do in the privacy of their own home.
What happens OUTSIDE of the military is really none of my business.
Or is it?
You see, I took an oath as did you, to support and defend the Constitiution of the US....if the Constitution is changed, does that void my contract? I don't know if I'd be so adamant in defending a special interest version of the Constitution.
Brent
11-05-04, 02:50 PM
I do not agree with the act of Homosexuality, I believe it is a sin.
And stand on my previous posting on this topic recently and basically sum up: I do not want the constitution changed, I do not want the government to decide who can and can't get married. That should be left up to the states, and ultimately the places at which marriages are carried out, for example Churches, it should be decided on that level. As for having a "union" of two people, that should be decided by the State, but not called a Marriage IMO, call it a Union.
Blisster
11-05-04, 03:10 PM
all these people really want is the same rights any other married couple has. The same tax breaks, the same medical benefits and rights etc. I don't see why its such a big ****ing deal.
Fundamentalists won't be happy until we live unser the same oppression (all in the name of freedom and God, of course) that the Afghani's STILL live under.
cyberskye
11-05-04, 03:26 PM
That raises an interesting question. Do you believe the media is partially at fault for spreading fear and confusion just for the sake of business?
I think the evangicals profit most from the FUD. Keeps them in business. That's how Bush was able to mobilize his fiscally-disappointed base that wouldn't have supported him otherwise.
cyberskye
11-05-04, 03:29 PM
all these people really want is the same rights any other married couple has. The same tax breaks, the same medical benefits and rights etc. I don't see why its such a big ****ing deal.
Fundamentalists won't be happy until we live unser the same oppression (all in the name of freedom and God, of course) that the Afghani's STILL live under.
Fundamentalists will always view things relative to their god. That's why it is always a moral rather than logical, pragmatic conversation. It polarizes before long before the first sign of debate.