Win2K networking: All I can say is I need help badly...at wits end here lol

[UOD]

Trying to setup a small network at our deployed location. We have 10 computers, all with fresh installs of Win2K Pro. We are connected to the base LAN via a Cisco switch.

So I have 10 computers, all running Win2K Pro, and are all connected via Cat5 to a Cisco switch. We all have access to the internet. The base is using a DHCP server so there isn't anything to configure...no proxies...nothing. Just connect up and go.

Here is the problem.

When I installed win2k on all the machines, I decided to make them part of a workgroup...we'll call it CEDAWGS. I did not specify a domain. I just want to create a little network much like that of a home network. We just need to be able to share a printer and to be able to see eachother on our little network and share some files/folders. No problemo correct?

When I go to the "my network places" on the desktop....and look for any signs of life...there is nothing there. I can go into "computers near me"...nothing, not even the computer I'm on!

I have installed all the required protocols and services, etc, I can ping all the other computers on the network, I can send netsend messages and they pop up fine but why for the love of all that is holy, can I not make this work?

What in the blue hell am I doing wrong?

TIA:D

[Prey521]

Is the NetBeui protocal installed?

[UOD]

Originally posted by Prey521
Is the NetBeui protocal installed?

yes.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Is there a server at all on the network, that is running DNS? Or...what are they using as their DNS server?

If there is no DNS present, "browsing" can take a while as the computers settle on who will be the master browser. Depending on a lot of things, can take a day or more of leaving them on 24/7.

You can speed things up by adding NetBEUI...but things will work with TCP alone, just give them time to settle down. Some people also add IPX, a protocol similar to NetBEUI in that there is no configuration needed (well, default there isn't). But IPX is really there for Novell networks, and is VERY chatty, will clog up your bandwidth. NetBEUI is a bit chatty too, I don't like it on networks of over 50 workstations, but for small ones it's fine.

Do a "Search for computers" and type in the name of another computer on the network.

[Prey521]

Also, do you have any software firewalls running? They can cause problems if not setup correctly.

[UOD]

Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Is there a server at all on the network, that is running DNS? Or...what are they using as their DNS server?

If there is no DNS present, "browsing" can take a while as the computers settle on who will be the master browser. Depending on a lot of things, can take a day or more of leaving them on 24/7.

You can speed things up by adding NetBEUI...but things will work with TCP alone, just give them time to settle down. Some people also add IPX, a protocol similar to NetBEUI in that there is no configuration needed (well, default there isn't). But IPX is really there for Novell networks, and is VERY chatty, will clog up your bandwidth. NetBEUI is a bit chatty too, I don't like it on networks of over 50 workstations, but for small ones it's fine.

Do a "Search for computers" and type in the name of another computer on the network.


I have seached for other computers on the network and I find some, but not all.

I made sure each comp has it's own unigue name but all the same workgroup affiliation.

I just can't figure out why I can ping, traceroute, netsend, find, even see the shares I've created but I can't see them in My network places/our workgroup name. Nothing gets populated.

Cat, let me ask you this....if I were to remove the switch from the equation...even remove internet access...how would I network these comps together? Through a workgroup correct? I guess I'm asking if I'm doing this correctly so far. Since there is no domain to connect to, nothing to authenticate users (I just created local users on each comp) a workgroup is the correct format for what I'm trying to do right?


Edit:

Prey...no software firewalls and no TCP filtering at all.

[twwabw]

Enable netbios over tcp/ip and see if they don't show up. Without DNS or Wins for browsing, they'll have a hard without NetBios running.

[YeOldeStonecat]

If you found some.....give them a chance, they'll all get there. Without a server running DNS on a domain, things can take a while with network browsing (different from internet browsing). Believe it or not, the computers just have to settle down with one another.

"Workgroup" is really a useless feature to visually organize larger networks together. One of the most common misperceptions I see all the time on forums is people saying "Computers HAVE TO be in the same workgroup in order to be able to see each other".

Absolutely not true!

Computers in different workgroups will see computers in other workgroups...you just have to drill down one more layer in Network Places. You'll see the different workgroups...and you'l drill down accordingly into whatever workgroup you wish, instead of having everyone on the same top layer. And it would take a little longer for things to settle down re: browsing.


So...workgroup the same..good, that's nice for tidyness and simplicity. But even if they were in different workgroups, they would still find each other.

Internet...no matter if it's present or not. Technically yes that can slow things down, because your computers are/might be using the ISP's DNS servers, and 2K/XP rely more on DNS for browsing both internet, and locally....so that can "slow things down" a little re: browsing again. That's not stopping you. But let me ask, are you behind a router? Or on a switch, with computers having full public IP's?

When did you setup this network? How long has it been up and running?

[UOD]

I've only had it running for maybe 10 days now?????

Computers get shut off every night because we have to kill power to the tent.

Here is the tent.

http://members.speedguide.net/uod/eagle_flag.jpg

Here is the Cisco switch inside the tent.

http://members.speedguide.net/uod/mac_snow_020.jpg

OK....so from the switch, the fiber goes back to 3 Lan/COMM rooms. The first room is where the MCI/Worldcom DS3 drop is, from there, it gets routed down to the next room, and then to the next where there is an LRE appliance. (long range ethernet) this has been a source of problems from the get go because it was severely restricting our T1 bandwidth. That has been rectified. Bouncer helped me alot with that and I'm still working with him on a VPN solution for our situation. Mind you, this is a huge DOD network that is inherently secure.....so secure that the Navy won't give us access to their network. Of course that is where all the info lies which I don't have access to. It is a .mil domain. They are alllowing us to utilze certain ports...like 80 for web access and such. No email though. We have to use our Air Force web mail.:(


In any case, due to the fact that we can't connect to their network, I decided to set things up like a small internal LAN. That is why I don't have to logon to any domain and didn't use one. I went the workgroup route.

Any advice? I'm all ears to make this a success.

I'm new to this whole workgroup manager thing but I'm reading and studying everything I can. I'm just tripped up for some reason.

[twwabw]

Any advice?

Yes- like I said before, try enabling netBIOS over TCP/IP. Set it under tcp/ip properties, Advanced., Wins tab, select Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Hmmm...10 days...way more than enough time.

Well...not knowing a couple of things...
1) TWW had a good point to check the NetBIOS over TCP...make sure that's enabled. Not knowing the history of these rigs, might be disabled. (just saw "fresh installs"...guess it's on..but double check)

2) That Catalyst switch....not knowing the history, might it have VLANs setup prior to your getting it?

3) Rigs running with service pack 4? There was a Win2K bug prior to SP3 that has delayed network browsing related to scanning the network for scheduled events.

some hints here:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/hutch/win2k/win982kbrowse.html

Specifically, look at the section regarding:
However when using Explorer to access files on the Win2000 PC using shared folders is slow, then an additional fix is needed. By slow I mean that it may take Word or Excel 30 seconds to load and share a file, depending on its size. In an old W98-95 PtP network this may have been almost instantaneous. This slowdown occurs because Windows 2000 is checking to see if scheduled tasks are enabled on the Windows 98 computer. To speed up the process, you can delete a registry key.
Open the Registry Editor and expand this branch:-

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\RemoteComputer\NameSpace

Select this key:- (select the whole folder)

{D6277990-4C6A-11CF-8D87-00AA0060F5BF}

I have not found that above trick to work for me, others here have. ///shrugs///

Read article carefully, <insert approriate warnings about working in registry>


-Cat

[twwabw]

just saw "fresh installs"...guess it's on..but double check

Default is "Use NetBIOS settingfrom the DHCP server". This is what will be checked after install. This is not the selection I want you to try- select the middle one- "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP".

UOD, you're not doing anything wrong as far as I can see. Don't get too caught up in terminology- by "workgroup" setup, in more relative terms, you are setting up a peer-to-peer network. As YOSC said, people tend to get wrapped up into this whole same workgroup name thing, and it doesn't mean squat.

The real problem here is you have 10 pc's in a network, with no mechanism for discovery. Windows using TCP/IP only needs something to help it resolve names. It can be WINS (Oh God..... but it actually does work.... except when it quits :D ); or DNS ( typically a domain environment, running DNS servers); or, NetBIOS. Leaving NetBIOS on is in theory a potential security threat. But, it's necessary.

Give it a try....

[Sid]

Originally posted by twwabw
Yes- like I said before, try enabling netBIOS over TCP/IP. Set it under tcp/ip properties, Advanced., Wins tab, select Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

:nod:

[UOD]

Hmmm. I had already enabled netbios over TCP. Oddly, none of these computers have the service pack you speak of.

Maybe that is the problem.

Will have to update and re-check.


Thanks for all the help so far guys. :D

[batmaing]

Hi all,

UOD, have you tried pinging the computer(s) you're trying to access with the -a option? So, "ping -a 192.168.0.1" would not only tell you if the computer is connected to you but should also return the computer's name. Well, this is assuming that you've assigned IP addresses to each computer. I'm curious, what happens when you try to access the computer(s) by UNC name?

batmaing

[UOD]

Originally posted by batmaing
Hi all,

UOD, have you tried pinging the computer(s) you're trying to access with the -a option? So, "ping -a 192.168.0.1" would not only tell you if the computer is connected to you but should also return the computer's name. Well, this is assuming that you've assigned IP addresses to each computer. I'm curious, what happens when you try to access the computer(s) by UNC name?

batmaing


I can ping them fine as well as send netsend messages.

Because we aren't hooking up to a domain, there is no authentication....sooooooooooo, all I have to do is search for each computer individually and then map network drives to whatever shares there are. IT's working...primitive but it works.

[Sid]

Are these systems on the same subnet?

Have you tried to get them through UNC yet?

[UOD]

Originally posted by Sid
Are these systems on the same subnet?

Have you tried to get them through UNC yet?


Yes. Maybe I should draw a diagram.

[Shinobi]

UOD... I sent your a PVT Msg..

Shinobi ;)

[UOD]

FINALLY!!!!!


FOUND IT!!!!!



IsDomainMaster



I had to set one computer as the preferred browser.

browser elections have stopped and everything is settled down now.


Whew.....


http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000pro/reskit/part4/proch23.asp



Took me forever in a day to read everything and figure out what the damn problem was.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Originally posted by UOD
IsDomainMaster



I had to set one computer as the preferred browser.

They wouldn't settle in huh? I've run across that once before...going back aways....where I had to flip that registry key.

Odd clean built machines wouldn't settle down by themselves...

Glad ya found it!

[UOD]

Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
They wouldn't settle in huh? I've run across that once before...going back aways....where I had to flip that registry key.

Odd clean built machines wouldn't settle down by themselves...

Glad ya found it!


Well....I still think that there is something that I don't have set correctly but who knows.