Variable Quality

[Jeremy]

I bought a relatively cheap ($300CDN) HP Photosmart 620. Most of the time, the image quality is very acceptable and printable (though my old HP printer can't take advantage). Sometimes though, i get extremely good quality output where i can't make out any artifacts until i zoom in alot. Then there are other times when the output looks like that of a $50 pocket camera (horribly speckled and fuzzy around edges). Is this just the nature of an entry level camera, or is it affected by something else, such as the environemnt lighting or something? All the photos were taken with the highest quality setting at 1632x1232.

[Dakota]

Garbage in. Garbage out. If the photo sucks, there isn't any printer that can make it any better. There are gobs of variables here too:

Photo Quality
Software used to print
Software used to edit

Not to mention a bunch of printer settings that can affect the output. Yes, normally these are all set to a so-called 'normal' status, but you can change the quality by your printer settings too. And -- to mention the basic of basics -- if you edit a jpeg and resave it, the image quality degrades with each subsequent edit and save.

Post a picture that ptints good and then one that prints bad so we can test them out for you on our equipment at home. I have at my disposal -- currently hooked to the network -- four different HP printers.

[Jeremy]

http://fuzzymath10.250free.com/images/IM000189.JPG
http://fuzzymath10.250free.com/images/IM000191.JPG
http://fuzzymath10.250free.com/images/badquality.jpg

the first one is a picture of my local driving range which turned relatively well.

the second one is a typical photo (not typical in that my friend is wearing a colander)

the last one i took at a local school. it was really dark so i fixed it up with PSP. the first two were right out of the camera (hence the filenames). A test would be nice as i'm not willing to spend $200CDN on a decent HP 5550

[Amro]

they all look grainy to me.. the last one especially.. the first 2 were bearable..but look ~1-2 MP quality w/ a crappy lens. I think the reason the pics change so much is lighting conditions and the camera's auto settings..let me explain, i bought a sony cybershot p9.. some of the pics looked ok (still crappy for a 4MP camera) but were ok..others were just plain HORRIBLE.. ended up being the camera's auto settings.. it couldn't adjust itself well enough to deal with differences in lighting..if the light wasn't perfect..the pictures were horrid.. using the manual modes helped a lot and the pictures turned out better..so i would look into the manual modes on your camera (assuming they exist).. altho i must side with dakota.. it'll only get so good. if you're happy with the first shot.. i think the camera will do u well..just learn the manual modes.. i'm still learning them on my canon s30..it rocks.. i returned the p9 and bought it..fortunately, the auto mode on it is great and takes good pictures..so for a photographic goof up, like myself, it turns out some great pics..just my 2c..i could be wrong..but i think that's what's happening to u.. good luck bro

[Dakota]

What we have here is the typical lower priced/pixeled camera that has trouble producing good prints that are not shot in sunlight. I have a camera (2.1mp Fuji) myself that does just that. Takes great shots in full sunlight and then just totally grains out in low light shots. And these type cameras will never do any good indoors unless you have some serious light put on the subject. That little wimpy flash on the top of the camera sure won't do it.

By the file size I'd guess this is about a 2mp camera right?

Amro is also right -- we work well together eh? LOL...Anyway, check the camera's settings, sometimes mucking with the white balance, ISO settings -- if you can -- can help. And, you are shooting in jpeg mode so the photos come right out of the camera in reduced quality. Try the uncompressed setting.

Also, when shopping for a camera, be aware that there is A LOT more to digital camera quality other than just megapixels.

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

Originally posted by Dakota
What we have here is the typical lower priced/pixeled camera that has trouble producing good prints that are not shot in sunlight. I have a camera (2.1mp Fuji) myself that does just that. Takes great shots in full sunlight and then just totally grains out in low light shots. And these type cameras will never do any good indoors unless you have some serious light put on the subject. That little wimpy flash on the top of the camera sure won't do it.

By the file size I'd guess this is about a 2mp camera right?

Amro is also right -- we work well together eh? LOL...Anyway, check the camera's settings, sometimes mucking with the white balance, ISO settings -- if you can -- can help. And, you are shooting in jpeg mode so the photos come right out of the camera in reduced quality. Try the uncompressed setting.

Also, when shopping for a camera, be aware that there is A LOT more to digital camera quality other than just megapixels. Great info Dakota!

Could you please elborate on there is A LOT more to digital camera quality other than just megapixels?

I thought the more the better.

Thanks man!

[Dakota]

You're welcome JCOS! Besides the pixels, mega's of them, you have to take into consideration what come before the sensor (your digital film) and after. That comes in the form of hardware before the sensor; your lens, and software; the firmware in you camera that processes the photo before saving it to the memory stick.

Some of the best glass out there right now in a consumer camera are the Carl Zeiss lenses on the Sony cameras and unless you invest in an expensive dSLR, you're stuck with what you bought with the camera.

Then comes the software which is a huge, huge part of the equation. How does the camera handle low light situations? How noisy (grainy) is the filtering in low-light/high ISO situations? Is it not filtered enough and very grainy, or is it too filtered and soft?

Then you have color accuracy, color bleed, 'stairing' and a multitude of other problems that you can encounter with digital photography.

And now add to that jpeg compression and tiff interpretation. There are boatloads of different processes for jpeg compression and every company and their engineers have their favorite. That in itself can destroy the best photo causing artifacts, pixelization (man! That spelling doesn't look right) and a myriad of other issues. And even though tiff is uncompressed, it's still an interpetation of what the sensor sees.

And that's ALL before you even get the photo onto your PC for post processing, if any, which is a matter for an entirely different thread.

That's just touching on a very few matters that we deal with in digital photography. In spite of what some people think, it is not perfect. But, we are (I think) still in the infancy of digital photography and entering an entirely different era of photography, which even still with the current digital age, has remained pretty much unchanged since its inception:

Light exposed onto film (digital sensor). Film processed onto paper (digital printer/processor).

The one MAJOR disadvantage to digital cameras is that once you purchase the camera, you are stuck with the same quality film (sensor) for the life of the camera, even if it's a dSLR, so if you're spending a lot of money, BE SURE you fully check out that camera BEFORE purchasing.

I've always loved this hobby and the digital age has just made it that much more alive for me... I'm in photo-heaven with my D60.

[Joint Chiefs of Staff]

Thanks Dakota! Tell me something can I go to you when I buy my next digi cam?

I don't need nor want something that I'm not going to use so I'm happy with my 2.1 Konica however...

My wife loves cameras and she's starting to explore my geeky world or technology. lol

I would love to get her this Sony (http://www.sonystyle.ca/webapp/commerce/servlet/ProductDisplay?merchant_rn=1&prrfnbr=62265&cgrfnbr=2091&catLandNum=2200&mainCatNum=2090&parent=DIGITAL_STILL_CAMERAS). Remember to convert it to US funds. hehe

[Jeremy]

well, can't expect much when your wallet's not overflowing :D :rolleyes: .

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Joint Chiefs Of Staff
Thanks Dakota! Tell me something can I go to you when I buy my next digi cam?

I don't need nor want something that I'm not going to use so I'm happy with my 2.1 Konica however...

My wife loves cameras and she's starting to explore my geeky world or technology. lol

I would love to get her this Sony (http://www.sonystyle.ca/webapp/commerce/servlet/ProductDisplay?merchant_rn=1&prrfnbr=62265&cgrfnbr=2091&catLandNum=2200&mainCatNum=2090&parent=DIGITAL_STILL_CAMERAS). Remember to convert it to US funds. hehe

Well....IMO, if you're going to spend THAT much on a camera, why not go all the way and get a Canon D60 or 1D? With the new 1Ds now out, the pros are dumping their D60 and 1Ds like hotcakes and they are for sale all over the place.

Granted, that will take you up into the $2k (USD) range, but IMO it's money well spent. And then you have ALL the flexibility of having a true SLR camera. Various lenses, filters, and endless add-ons that will keep this camera in use for many, many years to come.

Not to mention that there are a ton of tools out there specifically for Canon RAW files that make your digital darkroom a dream to work in.

I've always preferred SLR's because you have flexibility and are not stuck with a fixed lens. I now have on order the adapter to hook my D60 to my Meade telescope I've never used and I'm ordering a 25mm extension tube for shooting super macros.

When you got to an SLR the add-ons are endless.

I'm not knocking that Sony by any means and I'm sure it's a top-notch camera, but I just don't like being stifled by a fixed lens. Especially when forking out that much money. And yeah, I know that the exchange rate makes those prices even higher, but it's all relative.

I saw those Sonys recently on a trip to Best Buy and it's a weird looking camera with that big old lens hanging off the front. Sorry, but when spending $1600 USD I say wait a little bit and save a few more $$$, or whoop out the credit card and go the little extra step and get an SLR.